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'I Believe’ tags violate law, group claims in lawsuit

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by Crabtownboy, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    South Carolina’s approval of a Christian-themed specialty license plate drew legal action Thursday by a group that claims the new "I Believe" plate violates the constitutional separation of church and state by stating preference of one religion over others.

    The lawsuit -- filed in federal court in Columbia on behalf of several South Carolina religious leaders of varying faiths -- seeks to stop use of the plate, which depicts a yellow cross laid over an image of a stained glass window with the words "I Believe" printed below.


    http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080619/NEWS01/80619034/1071/YOURUPSTATE03
     
  2. SBCPreacher

    SBCPreacher Active Member

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    Well, let the atheists have their "I Don't Believe" plate!

    The Mormons can have a "I'm gonna be god some day..." plate.

    The new agers can have a "I am god" plate.

    The Hindus can have a "which god are we talking about" plate.


    If we had an "I Believe" plate in NC, I'd have one.
     
  3. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    The state really doesn't need to be endorsing any belief or non belief. It should remain neutral. A cross on the state license plate is not neutral. Let people buy frames or bumper stickers.

    There also was a case about 20 years ago over New Hampshire's "Live Free or Die" slogan on plates. The complainant was a Jehovah's Witness family who didn't believe in military engagement. They had been charged for covering the slogan on their tag.
     
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member

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    And I would have a personalized plate made with a ballot box up in the sky and clouds as a backdrop and three hands together holding one paper marked "vote" with the initial of my first letter on it, halfway into the ballot box, and the caption "elect in Christ" and Primitive Baptist as a sub-caption. Each hand would be titled Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

    I guarantee that in this country I will probably be road raged and shot in a short while.
     
  5. exscentric

    exscentric Active Member

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    "The state really doesn't need to be endorsing any belief or non belief. It should remain neutral. A cross on the state license plate is not neutral. Let people buy frames or bumper stickers."

    Setting up a metal stamping machine to stamp a personalized message/emblem is not in any way shape or form "endorsing" anything but the capitalistic principle of giving commercially what the people want and charging them for giving it to them! :laugh:

    From the article: "The state has issued more than 350 styles of specialty license plates -- including those for education fundraising, war veterans and supporters of the "shag" dance" -- that are governed by varying fees and rules for what can be printed,"
     
  6. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    Then why do they have all kinds of other specialty plates? I remember this topic from another thread, and there were lots of specialty plates named for various causes. To allow certain specialty plates and not others is discrimination, I would think. Maybe they should stop selling them altogether and stick to one basic design.
     
  7. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    "Maybe they should stop selling them altogether and stick to one basic design."

    Idiotic lawsuits by duds who evidently don't have a real life will eventually result in no specialty tags as someone out there is going to be "offended" by whatever is put on the tag be it secular or religious in nature.
     
  8. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member

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    Traditionally American Baptist have been totally against anything that strikes of a violation of the separation of church and state. I grew up in rural Virginia and that was drilled into us when I was a kid. To me those who see no problem with "I believe" tags or federal aid to private schools have either forgotten this Baptist stance or do not know the history of Baptists in this area. I call them "Modern Baptists" as opposed to "traditional Baptists"

    One very important aspect that modern Baptists and especially many in the SBC seem to forget is that with any government funding comes government control ... and I am totally against that.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptists_in_the_history_of_separation_of_church_and_state

    http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:6XUNbToZogYJ:www.teachingaboutreligion.org/WhitePapers/separation_church_state.htm+baptist+separation+of+church+and+state&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us
     
    #8 Crabtownboy, Jun 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2008
  9. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>

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    Back in Jesus' day, how were his followers identified ? With a liscence plate, or by the way they lived ?
     
  10. exscentric

    exscentric Active Member

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    Neither, but by a "I love Jesus" bumper sticker on their back :thumbs: Well, maybe not.:laugh:
     
  11. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94 Active Member

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    Good point. We shouldn't have to point it out. It should be evident in our daily lives.

    I don't see how "I Believe" can be offensive, though. The statement is very vague and could mean a whole bunch of different things.
     
  12. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Did you hear about the lady that got arrested for stealing a car, when she was driving her own car?

    She had an "I love Jesus" bumper sticker on her back bumper...
    But when she got cut off at an intersection, she gave a finger at the person cutting her off....

    At this point, the officer, that was behind her, turned on his sirens and pulled her over...

    Why?
    Her actions didn't match what was on her car....

    Yeah, this is not a true story, but a creative illustration that we should live what we preach....

    BTW, I would proudly display a Christian plate if I could.

    And I beleive crybabies that always get offended should just get over it!
    We have a freedom of religion, not a freedom from religion in this country,
    And the religion I practice, actively proselytizes....
     
  13. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>

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    I agree with all of that. I just think states should stay out of the God business. But I also believe the perpetually offended will always be looking for another way to ignore God.
     
  14. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Freedom of religiion is the free exercise clause.
    Freedom from religion is the establishment clause.
    You can't have one without the other. The govt. cannot force religion on anyone.
     
  15. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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  16. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Used to be that way. Not since the 14th Amendment though. From HERE:
    For the first 150 years of our nation’s history, there were very few occasions for the courts to interpret the establishment clause because the First Amendment had not yet been applied to the states. As written, the First Amendment applied only to Congress and the federal government. In the wake of the Civil War, however, the 14th Amendment was adopted. It reads in part that “no state shall ... deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law... .” In 1947 the Supreme Court held in Everson v. Board of Education that the establishment clause is one of the “liberties” protected by the due-process clause. From that point on, all government action, whether at the federal, state, or local level, must abide by the restrictions of the establishment clause.
     
  17. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    They believe what???????

    Boggles the mind that anyone would pay extra for a license plate that makes him appear ignorant.
     
  18. Don

    Don Well-Known Member

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    Yeesh.

    So, if I order, pay for, receive, and install a license plate that has a picture of a fish, the state endorses fishing? Or, if I get one that has a message about hunting, the state endorses hunting?

    I thought the point of getting a license plate with a message was to "personalize" the license plate?

    Or does the use of numbers and letters mean the state endorses what those individual messages are?

    If they're going to offer "personalized" license plates, then isn't the "personalization" the responsibility of the individual?
     
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm, I must be cheating the state and the "perpetually offended" then because I made my own plate for the front of my truck. Just got one of those regular ones on the back. Made it out of plastic so I can peel and stick whatever bumpersticker to it that suits my mood at any given moment.

    My mood seems to be stuck on Ron Paul still.
     
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