If You Don't Believe in Just War Theory, What is Your Alternative?

Targus,
You are fighting a losing battle with CBT. He has already said that he wants what Jesus said. He doesn't care about what Paul said about God having given the government the right to bear arms. He doesn't even care that Jesus did not tell the Romans soldiers anything about quitting the army. He doesn't care about what God said in the Old Testament. He only accepts what Jesus said. And Jesus didn't talk about a just or unjust war.

Jesus did use illustrations about discipleship in which he talked about going to war in Luke 14. He never said, "don't go to war, but let me use this as an illustration". He was the one who told Joshua that he was coming as the Captain of the hosts of the Lord in Joshua.

But CBT doesn't care about the rest of Scripture, only what Jesus said. I gave him what wars I thought were just. He doesn't agree. He wants to enjoy the fruits of freedom without justifying the costs. But that's what those wars were fought for. He has a God given right to be whatever it is he is.

 

In your opinon.

Read post #2 in this thread.

I am giving you a hard time because you are a hypocrite.

 

Did Jesus advocate war or did he not advocate war?

 

You sure do like to run in circles. :laugh:

If your "Jesus did not advocate war" debate method works against those who supported the Iraq war - it also works against your Just War beliefs because Jesus did not advocate Just War either.

You are the one taking both sides of the issue - not me. :laugh:

 

I answered your questions and you replied with insults/ Please answer mine.

Did Jesus advocate war or not?

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No - but then Jesus did not advocate the internet either, so why are you here?

Jesus did however advocate laying down your life for others.

He also advocated justice and helping others.

Now did Jesus advocate Just War?

And remember - you are the one who set the "Jesus said" standard - not me. So you need to live up to it.

 

War existed in Jesus days on earth, the Internet did not. Poor comparison.

Do you believe this verse means an approval of war?

How does this apply to war?

That is my question to you. Are you saying he did?

 

YOU set the "Jesus said" standard - not me.

YOU said that "Jesus did not advocate war"

YOU said that there are Just Wars.

You are now asking me to find something that Jesus said that will support YOUR beliefs.

YOU set the standard - now live by it.

It is incumbent upon YOU to show where Jesus advocated Just War - not on me.

YOU set the standard - not me.

 

Jesus did not address Just War directly.

But I don't need that to come to a conclusion about Just War as that is not the standard that I set.

I am capable of coming to conclusions based on the Scriptures as a whole.

You however have set a different standard.

The standard which you have set is "Did Jesus advocate..."

You have already said that Jesus did not advocate war - and you accused those who supported the Iraq war of ripping out pages of the Bible.

It looks as though you too are ripping out pages from the Bible by supporting Just War.

 

Here is your earlier post:

Here you say you accept the concept of a just war, but that scripture does not address the topic. Seems the same as I was stating also. It certainly appears that you are in the same camp as I. Just wars are possible, but Jesus, [i.e. scripture] does not address them.

Sorry, but your earlier post puts you in the same camp as I am in ... though I have admitted that I may be wrong about just wars.

Is it possible you are in error also?

 

We are not in the same camp at all.

You set the standard of "Jesus says" - I did not.

You accused others of "ripping pages out of the Bible" for supporting a war - I did not.

You then take a position which is not supported by "Jesus says".

THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM - but it is not mine.

I am sure that you got all excited thinking that you wiggled off the hook - but you haven't.

You still need to reconcile everything that you said negative about those who supported the Irag war in the absence of Jesus advocating war - while supporting Just War in the absence of Jesus advocating Just War.

But I seriously question if you have any idea of what I am talking about here.

 

Do you mean Jesus is not the standard?

Here again is your earlier quote:

You said scripture. I said Jesus. Do you mean that what Jesus said is not scripture? I do not believe you mean that. I do think your own words show you are in the same camp as I, but that are not man enough to admit it.

You said scripture does not speak about the topic of just war, but that you believe there are just wars. How is that different.

Again, do you not accept Jesus' as a standard?

 

The standard that you set is "Jesus says".

What "Jesus said" is part of Scripture - but it is not all of Scripture.

There is more to Scripture than only the quoted words of Jesus.

I said that Scripture does not "directly address" a Just War concept.

But it is possible to come to such a position based on other issues addressed by Scripture.

But the standard that you have set is "Jesus said".

So considering that Jesus did not advocate war - Just or otherwise - how do you come to your belief in Just War ?

Without being a hypocrite that is.

 

I have said that Jesus did not speak about just or unjust wars. That is quite different from saying "Jesus said........"

And, though you seem to want to ignore it, I have said that I may be wrong about the just war theory.

You stated, as I have shown, that you believe there are just wars. What wars do you believe were just and which were unjust?

 

The arguement that you gave was that "Jesus did not advocate war" while condemning those who supported the Iraq war.

Are you now admitting that you may be wrong about that also?

 

No, the Iraq war was and is totally unjustified and it is such a terrible tragedy that thousands of US soldiers have been killed and tens of thousands have been had their lives destroyed through head and bodily injuries. The war should never have been begun and when we really leave there will be a blood bath in Iraq. It will all have gone for nothing.

What makes you believe that Iraq is a just war?

 

I didn't say that the war was just.

When are you going to reconcile your arguement that "Jesus did not advocate war." with your belief in Just Wars?

Or are you just "ripping pages out of the Bible"?

 

Since you believe in just wars, which one or ones do you believe were just?

I believe I've answered that one several times. No use to re-plow plowed ground. Reread the numerous postings and reread the several answers. Thanks.

I have give you numerous answers. When will you answer my question that I posed above?