I'm Coming-Out!

Yes, there are similarities. I went through the clubbing and drinking phase in my early 20's. Didn't model or wear bikinis though. HA! (But dated women that did.)

I think that wild time of my life was partially a rebellion against all the rules and regs at my IFB church. I sometimes have a beer or two while watching a ball game on TV or mowing the lawn, but otherwise I'm real tame now. :laugh:

 

Very true..my uncle and my husband were talking about that recently and he made a good point. He said, there are things that other churches consider acceptable and we dont, but as long as they are still preaching from the bible, and people are turning to Christ, thats what ultimately matters...IFB's live by certain biblical standards that other churches consider "outdated" (we all know the bible will never be outdated, though!)...and we are very content without having to become modernized to the standards of the contemporary church...but ultimately if both churches are preaching Jesus Christ's gospel, and they are transformed inside and out as the bible states someone who becomes saved is..then that's the big picture ultimately... and lifting up your hands or not does not determine whether you will be here when Christ returns or not lol..

 

That's the church you were attending not the entire denomination. I attend a KJV SBC. We are quite traditional in many things, but we are an older group for the most part. In other ways we're a hand-clapping, red hankie waving, group of good time loving pentacostals. We like good Southern Gospel music (you won't find no rock n roll in our church), no drums but we do have a trombone player who can make you cry he's so good, we have a harmonica player, a tambourine player....I guess what I'm saying is don't try to paint everyone with the same brush. God made us ALL different. The trick is finding a gospel preaching, Bible teaching, Jesus believing and teaching church that fits you. Yes, you'll lose friends if you don't make the effort to keep the friendships up. You may lose some friends because you've chosen to leave the fellowship and they don't approve of your new church choice, but I would comment here that they weren't real friends to begin with.

As for me, my preference is KJV only. That's what I grew up with, that's what I understand and God is good about revealing things to me through the scriptures. As for other versions (many call them perversions, but we won't go there) God can do anything He wants. He can use other versions, other churches, other denominations to do His will and pleasure. When we get so narrow minded that we believe that if you're not a KJV only, baptized member of the SBC (or IFB) church then we need to step back and take a better look. My 1st husband's mother (bless her) truly believed that only Baptists went to Heaven. She's gone to glory now, I think it would have been funny to see her face when she found out the real truth!:laugh:

 

My brother and his wife bought me a NKJV Study Bible for Christmas the year I was saved. That was in 94. I've been using it ever since. Just recently had it rebound. I have no problem with folks who use the KJ but disagree with folks who say that it is all we should use.

 

The reason that is said is because the KJV is the most accurate version of all the translations..others are reworded, altered, "summarized", "paraphrased", some take out big chunks of the word...

I think most people don't like kjv because of the old english but its not that difficult..my little sister reads kjv and she understands it just fine and she's 14..

 

The biggest issue was the KJVOnlyism... VERY Strict KJVO...
Another issue was the music.. I read your post above and respect your choice.. but that is what it is.. a choice.. There is nothing unholy about listening to Contemporary music.. or drums... (as I was taught as an IFB)
I remember a conversation I had with an assistant pastor one time. He was telling me the evils of CCM... and how his kids would never be allowed to listen to it.. (this was back in the late 90s)... I stepped outside, and his daughter that was 16, was doing the Macarena in the parking lot!.. He had no problem with worldly music.. but didn't want his kids "influenced" by CCM'

I realize not all CCM is worship worthy.. but it does have entertainment value.. why condemn CCM but listen to country while driving... (seen that done a lot)...

The other issue was the Pastoral authority so much that the Pastor had the authority to tell my wife how to dress!.. (I"M the husband.. if I have a problem with it.. it's my place.. not the pastors)

One pastor in Clendenin mandated all women wear dresses all the time.. not just at church, but all the time..
This same pastor mandated that TV's be thrown away...

The Book burnings.. and Bible burnings.. (NIVs, etc) that they said were of Satan...

Not allowing women to speak at business meetings...

No women allowed in ministry (not talking about preaching, but real ministry... like teaching, serving, working in the church, visitation, etc)...

The LIST.. (sometimes unspoken) but a certain list of standards that the pastor preached that if upheld, you were considered to be a good christian... things like....

Carry your bible to church (KJVO)
Read your bible 3 times a day
Pray 3 times a day
Go to church Sunday morning, Sunday Evening, Wedn Eve.
No drinking (smokin was allowed because the pastor smoked)
No hanging out with sinners
Must wear tie to church if a man
Woman must wear dress to church (lil girls were allowed coulotts sp?)
no card playing
no dancing .. Including PROM.. PRIM (dinner) was OK.. but no Prom
No going to the public pool... a teen guy may see a teen girl, and it arouse his natural instincts... (That God put there)

Etc...

As long as this list could be checked off the person was considered a good Christian...

even if they never disciple another person, or help the poor and oppressed..

It was a breeding ground for proud Christians.. that Sang Amazing Grace in the Aisles at Krogers, but would chew the cashier out if she over charged them 50 cents.. (saw this one time also.. literally.. the pastor in Clendenin above did this)...

Maybe not all IFBs are like this.. (I hope not) but I can smell hypocrisy as soon as I walk into any IFB church I have ever been in.. (In WV).. from the Pastor down to the people in the pews..

And then the hiding of sins by the leadership in the churches I seen..
As a IFB pastor's son.. I could tell you a lot!.. but I won't...

I saw sin up close and personal growing up.. and a lot of it was from the IFB camp.

That's why I have such a dislike for IFB churches.. especially the KJVO type...

OH they also lie.. any KJVO church that says it uses a 1611 but actually uses another edition of the KJV (Most use the 1769) are liars..
I know of a lot of IFB churches that advertise KJV 1611.. on their sign.. but If I brought one in and started to read from the book of Macabees, I would be thrown out!... They are liars.. if they don't use the 1611.. but instead use another KJV...

That's why any IFB church(or any other church, but IFBs are the most that do this).. advertises 1611 on their sign.. I chalk them up as hypocrites...

They sing "Oh how I love Jesus" but sin by not carrying the 1611.. as they claim they do!.. LIARS...

Anyway, that's part of my story.. . just enough to give you a taste of why IFBs are distasteful to me!..

BTW, I really hope you are not like any of this... if not, PRAISE GOD....

 

this will be fun!...and long lol...i'm breaking this up into 2 response because i guess i went over the allowed 10000 characters hahaa..

 

No drinking (smokin was allowed because the pastor smoked)
People like to use certain things in the bible to justify their drinking habits..but there are MANY verses that speak of alcohol, mixed drinks, winebibbing, as a negative thing..and the bible says whatever is pure whatever is holy, do.. and as a former drinker who's gotten a DUI because of alcohol..I'd say there's nothing pure or holy about alcohol..smoking is just as bad..bible tells you your body is not your own and you are supposed to take care of your body..and we all know all the things caused by smoking..both are considered addictive and both are bad for you so he shouldnt be forbidding one while doing the other in my opinion..I don't see anything wrong with speaking again alcohol because I have experience and have also done studies while in school on it.. and it hurts your body and causes addictions (no other gods before me, idolatry), and makes you do foolish things (there's a verse in proverbs that speaks on how it causes you to do perverse things..cant remember off the top of my head)..


No hanging out with sinners
then in that case you might as well stop talking to everyone in the church and yourself too because we are all sinners..lol..i wouldnt suggest hanging around people that MAY try to influence you to do something sinful or biblically foolish..but i've never heard my pastor say anything about not hanging out with unsaved..actually i've heard him mention about some close acquaintances that are unsaved that he always uses time with them to minister to them...


Must wear tie to church if a man

again..standards that are okay to be set for those WORKING/serving in the ministry..as for a general attendee requirement..lol..come to my church and tell me if every man is wearing a tie..or even a button up collared dress shirt for that matter...

Woman must wear dress to church (lil girls were allowed coulotts sp?)
I've always believed there are church appropriate outfits..but again..same thing as all the other dress standard issues...they are not going to turn away people for not wearing dresses..there are many female members of our church that wear pants to church..

no card playing

i've played Uno many times at youth retreats lol those are cards..as for the regular deck of cards..i've never seen anyone be so disrespectful to bring decks of cards to a service lol..so i cant really speak there...but for general usage..umm..again..i've heard about that generalization of all IFBs but i dont think its an all IFB thing..and i've also heard that some prefer them not to because of how some people abuse them by using them for dumb things..but i'm not fully educated on that matter so i wont speak on it..

no dancing .. Including PROM.. PRIM (dinner) was OK.. but no Prom

Yes.. that I am aware of..again..maybe this is my age and generation speaking..but i've never seen any one my age dance appropriately..and i worked in dance clubs lol..so i know this...and i was a dancer too..so i really know this.. haha... have you been to a prom in the last 10 years? Mine was 7 years ago..and you let people that age dance and theres going to be at least 1 couple grinding, behind grabbing, girls dancing all hoochified to get the guys attention..etc.. and as someone who's always LOVED dancing..I will still tell you its better that dancing not be allowed..because someone's always going to do something dumb..

No going to the public pool... a teen guy may see a teen girl, and it arouse his natural instincts... (That God put there)

Nothing wrong with going to a public pool..what matters is how the girl dresses..guys are always going to look..and the bible says that if a man even look at someone lustfully they are already sinning in their hearts..why be the girl who is going to be responsible for that..and again..guys are always going to look..even if you say you wont.. the one right next to you will be drooling..I was a gogo dancer before..and why do clubs have gogo dancers? to get guys to go because they are eye candy.. and what did i wear as a gogo dancers..basically bikini looking outfits..why is that considered gogo attire..because you are supposed to get and keep guys there...

Etc...

As long as this list could be checked off the person was considered a good Christian...

even if they never disciple another person, or help the poor and oppressed..
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise- thats encouraged..discipleship is encouraged..the bible tells you to help the poor and oppressed..and my pastor preaches on these things because he preaches out of the Word of God.. thats what the focus is..not this "list"

It was a breeding ground for proud Christians.. that Sang Amazing Grace in the Aisles at Krogers, but would chew the cashier out if she over charged them 50 cents.. (saw this one time also.. literally.. the pastor in Clendenin above did this)...

You should pray for that pastor...

Maybe not all IFBs are like this.. (I hope not) but I can smell hypocrisy as soon as I walk into any IFB church I have ever been in.. (In WV).. from the Pastor down to the people in the pews..

every church is going to have their hypocrites..cant get away with that..just like ever political system will have their corrupt politicians..my pastor says that the church is not for the sinless..its more like a hospital..to help the sick..no one is perfect and anyone who thinks they are spiritually perfect is just fooling themselves... I have not been to every IFB church in existence but the 4-5 that i've been to are not liking this..maybe its just out of state non-californian IFB's that are crazy lol..just kidding...

And then the hiding of sins by the leadership in the churches I seen..
As a IFB pastor's son.. I could tell you a lot!.. but I won't...


Again.. i feel bad for people involved in those things but not every IFB church is like that..

I saw sin up close and personal growing up.. and a lot of it was from the IFB camp.

i'm sure you havent been to every IFB camp though...

That's why I have such a dislike for IFB churches.. especially the KJVO type...
arent all IFBs KJVO? again..nothing wrong with KJV bible at all...what you've experienced has nothing to do with kjv bible..its the people...

OH they also lie.. any KJVO church that says it uses a 1611 but actually uses another edition of the KJV (Most use the 1769) are liars..

okay..umm i'm not sure what the big deal is on that ..but all i know is that im using kjv..i have a couple that say 1611 and a bilingual one that says 1960 lol..i've been in both spanish and english services and when i follow along im reading the exact same thing ..so not sure what that problem is and ive never heard anyone in my church make a big deal out of what year your kjv has on it lol

I know of a lot of IFB churches that advertise KJV 1611.. on their sign.. but If I brought one in and started to read from the book of Macabees, I would be thrown out!... They are liars.. if they don't use the 1611.. but instead use another KJV...

umm..no book i have has a book of maccabees..lol..thats the catholic bible lol..why would u read out of a catholic book thats not in ANY bible translation (KJV NIV NASB, etc etc)?? thats just pushing it and looking to stir up drama lol..

That's why any IFB church(or any other church, but IFBs are the most that do this).. advertises 1611 on their sign.. I chalk them up as hypocrites...


again.. i dont get the obsession with the advertisments of the years..oh maybe because its the 400th anniversary of kjv 1611?? lol..other than that..i dont get nor have i seen anyone make a big deal out of that..

0


They sing "Oh how I love Jesus" but sin by not carrying the 1611.. as they claim they do!..LIARS...
wow..now you are starting to sound like someone who just has it out for IFBs..since when is carrying a kjv thats not 1611 a sin?? umm not sure what church you've gone to but ..yeah..i've NEVER heard of this obsession you speak of lol..

Anyway, that's part of my story.. . just enough to give you a taste of why IFBs are distasteful to me!..

such a big generalization..and stereotyping is so distasteful to me too you are being just as prematurely judgmental as the "ifb's" you speak of? you say we judge anyone who doesnt follow this "list" but you are judging anyone and everyone that is associated with IFB...both are ignorant judgements and presumptions..


BTW, I really hope you are not like any of this... if not, PRAISE GOD....[/QUOTE]

lol..no dear, I'm not like anything you've mentioned..and i dont know anyone at my church who is..i'm sure there is someone out there..but every tree has their nuts lol (i read that somewhere and just loved it lol)..

If you are ever in California (so cal los angeles ) area..i'd love to invite you to first baptist church of long beach..it truly is a wonderful church..and i'm not just sayin' that because i go there hehehe..

sheesh..this was long..lol

 

It's been a long time since some of these members sat foot in an IFB church, MamaCW - they don't know the progress that has been made.
My Pastor listens to contemporary music!!! (so do I) We just feel that rock n roll needs to stay out in the world where it was created.

My Pastor treats his wife with absolute respect and admiration, no abusive anything ever!!! He sets an example for all. There is nothing on our church sign that says anything about the version of the Bible we use. Yes, we are KJVO, but if you bring one of the revisions in, we don't mind. You will just have a hard time following what is read. :smilewinkgrin:

I love my King James Bible, it was all we had when I grew up in the Southern Baptist Church, and it is all I need. I rely upon the Holy Spirit for guidance.

 

Amen sista hahaha.. yes.. the Holy Spirit.....and my dictionary lol.. I love it too though..

 

MamaCW, I doubt if you have a bible that was published before the20th Century. It is a fact that the 1611 KJV included the Apocrypha by virtue of an edict of King James I himself. They even had one of their six translation committees dedicated to its translation. The Apocrypha continued to be found between the testaments in most KJ bibles through the 19th Century. The large pulpit bible in my church, which was published in the early 20th Century has it.

 

hmmm....really now...i think i'm going to have to dig through the boxes in our storage for the other bibles lol..i'm pretty sure i have an authorized 1611 version..i only have this kjv out because since its my bilingual one i only alwayys use this one..bbuuuttt..not i'm curious to double check..
if i'm wrong about the version my other kjvs are i'll gladly admit it..lol...
but yeah..that just shows why i'm completely lost about the whole kjv YEAR 1611 ONLY thing.. ..

 

MamaCW... I haven't got the time right now to respond to your response, I have to teach our Hispanic church plant this evening, and finish tonight on tomorrow's sermon...

but I will say this.. you are not too far from where I am only on a couple issues..

Research the KJV and you will find that the KJV 1611 did include the apocrypha (including Maccabees)..

Chances are, the KJV you are using is a 1769... or slight chance, it may be a 1873...

This is why I have said that a church that says it uses the 1611... and there are plenty with signs out front proclaiming such... and they don't use the 1611... they are lying...

Any pastor worth anything knows the difference between a 1611 and 1769... they should know where and how their bible was translated.. if they don't they need to quit pastoring...

ON the other stuff... I would agree with you probably 85-90 percent.. especially if we were in real life...

I'll answer the other stuff after tomorrow..

Have a blessed Lord's day!...

 

I find that those who have a gripe about IFB are small on the doctrinal differences, but huge on the moral differences. They just can't abide being told something they love is wrong.

 

Wow humblethinker, your B.I.T.E link described my childhood so well I had to quit reading. 25 years out from breaking away, it still frightens me to realized just how controlled I was at the time. And honestly, my parents were more to blame than the churches(there were more than one) for the abuse, but the churches were to blame for encouraging the mindset that allowed the abuse, that ignored the abuse and by those two actions helped keep the abuse from seeing the light of day.

I was born into a IFB family though the churches we attended through the years weren't always IFB churches. Those churches, with a couple of exceptions, always had:

rigid codes of conduct (not always based on scripture),

practiced intense seperation from nonbelievers (even though Christ ate with prostitutes to be seen with someone of "that class' was sin to us) and,

were patriarchal in nature (women needed to keep their mouths shut! not that my mother ever did lol, but she did at church and told my father her views at home where she was very vocal about them) The man was the head of the house and everyone needed to toss their opinions out the door and do what he said.

How this played out in my life was a lot like the info in the link Humblethinker supplied and I referenced above. A few examples:

Rules of conduct: No drinking, smoking, dancing, playing cards, secular music, KJVO, girls wear dresses on Sunday and boys wear ties or suits (some of the churches thought women should ONLY wear dresses all of the time and to elsewise was sinful), no "cussing" even down to gosh, golly and darn (I don't know how socks ever got repaired!). That was just the beginning. There were rules about what absolutely everything you can think of. And no explanation for the rules.

You either followed the rules or you were a sinner bound for hell. Your actual status in Christ didn't matter if you DIDN'T FOLLOW THE RULES!

Separation from "non-believers" meant that as a child I wasn't exposed to people who thought the above was a bunch of hooey! My friends were chosen for me. Or more likely, I simply wasn't allowed to socialize outside the family because ________. The blank got filled in by everything from "they go to the Methodist church" (said in a tone that meant they were sadly mistaken sinners bound to burn in hell for all eternity) to "they let their kids play with cards!" (oh the horrors of playing go fish with a deck of playing cards!) IF there wasn't a reason, then it was "too inconvient" or we were being punished (usually for thinking something not approved of).

Patriarchal was kind of funny in our house and was one of the first things that caused me to really think my parents and the churches we attended really didn't sync up to well. My mother ruled the roost at home. My father, btw, still believe that he was right in allowing her to behave the way she did because he was "loving her as Christ loved the church". He might be the head, but she was neck that turned the head in the direction she wanted him to go in. But at church, this was considered okay, and her behavior excused, because Brother W allowed it.

My "coming out". Oh my. God saved me at age 7 and by age 10 I was already coming out! It took until I was 21 to accomplish it, but I already had disregarded much of what I'd been taught. It wasn't my parents fault. They told me every single day that I was dumb, misguided (who have YOU BEEN LISTENING TOO!), that I'd never accomplish anything with views like that, that hell awaited people who rejected the ideas of their church and "played in the world" and all sorts of other things designed to keep me emtionally, spirtually and financially dependent on them.

But while they were yayaing on and on about what a terrible person I was (and hey, I didn't go out drinking and smoking with my friends, never wanted to even if I felt like suffering the abuse my parents would mete out as "consequences"), while they kept up their constant criticism of every person who came into my life (they loved my husband until we announced our engagement!), and twisted me emotionally first in one direction and then the other.

While all that was going on, there was this still, quiet little voice that said "ignore that and read My Word. I'm here to guide you through." And that was the voice I listened to, the One I depended when I'd been beaten down (sometimes physically, sometimes emotionally), the One who taught me what scripture REALLY said as opposed to what my parents (and their churches) wanted it to say. God finally freed me from the oppression I'd been raised with at age 21. A that time I was able to stand firm in the face of parents who'd raised me as seperate from the rest of their families as possible (I have vast amounts of cousins I've never met) and find a church with my husband who taught scripture and expected the Holy Spirit to be capable of applying it to our lives.

What did I leave behind? Well, not much. Like I said my parents hadn't allowed me to form any relationships, and the one with my fiance they didn't exactly "allow" but opposed vehemently until I simply moved out and left them behind. God opened the door and I went through it. So I didn't have friendships to leave behind. My fiance and his family were my support during this transistion along with one aunt who'd been waiting for a chance to help get me out, though she'd been blocked at every chance (gasp! she was DIVORCED!!!)

Eventually, I to give up the relationship with my brother who in order to gain freedom for himself and his family, finally had to disown our parents completely. This keeps my parents from trying to use me as a go between between he and them, not that I was ever a good go between. I'm much too likely to tell my parents that if they want to know they should ask him! But, it was too much for him emotionally, especially after my mother got mad at ME and took it out on my brother's wife (with a ranting phone message that lasted the length of the tape and that my father said my sister in law deserved! )

But that's okay. I trust that God can take care of my brother's emotional needs as well as He's taken care of mine all these years. My brother, will graduate nursing school this spring. Its an acheivment my parents refused him all those years ago, after telling him that he wasn't smart enough for college and just needed to go get a job.

As for me, God has achieved so many things in my life that I couldn't begin to list them here. This post is already way to long! I will say that my life now is worth the suffering I went through then. It's worth the phone call I will make in a little while acknowledging the contribution of my mother in my life. I don't do it for her, but for Christ who gave His all for all of us. And that is how I've come out and moved on.

 

Menageriekeeper: I'm sorry u had to go thru that. My wife has an aunt like that. They go to some fundamental bapti-costal church where "your church family is more important than your blood family" is taught. We've had to really work on here and finally made a breakthru.

I hope that ANYBODY who belongs to such a church would one day wake up and look in the mirror and say "oh my gosh....I have disowned my own flesh and blood in favor of fellow church members? Does God REALLY want me to disown my family?"

 

If your own flesh and blood are hindering your walk with Christ and keeping you from serving Him to your fullest potential, then certainly God wants you to make church and Himself a priority over them.