Featured I'm sure my denomination is closer to the truth than..."

The original literal Greek meaning of the word in scripture, and linguistics are all the evidence I need, and that evidence proves my point and refutes you -- totally and completely.

You can apply all the demeaning epithets you desire to my responses, but your position is wrong. I know you wish that "eon" did not mean an age, but it does, and you can't change that. I know that punches holes in your vengeful delight at the paganistic prospect of souls frying eternally, but that doctrine is diametrically opposite to what Jesus taught about divine judgment as aionios kolasis, meaning age-long chastisement.

Amazing how some who claim to want to follow the NT as closely as possible draw back when one of their pet doctrines cannot be substantiated therefrom.

 

To claim that the NT teaches eternal hell and eternal security is to go against scripture. "Eon" is an age, not an eternity. I said that theoretically one's stay in hell could be eternal if the person did not ever repent. But Jesus did not teach an eternal hell, as I have shown.

Eternal security is a Calvinist doctrine unknown and untaught for the first 1500 years of the church; it is refuted by scripture.

Yes, God is bound by His nature, and an essential part of His nature is freedom.

The NT says that after His death, Jesus went and preached to the spirits in prison. Why, and what is the purpose of preaching?

It might do your heart and soul good to follow the teachings of Jesus about hell and give up the Zoroastrian influence concerning it.

 

Mat.25:41 is Scripture, as well as Rev.20:10-15. I am not the one going against Scripture.
You fail to expound John 10:27-30 every time I ask you. It defeats your position hands down. And it has nothing to do with determinism or the elect, (or it doesn't have to).

In some cases. You can remain in willful ignorance and claim that, but it would be willful because others already have informed you that that is not the major meaning, but minor. I have given you enough authoritative sources that you should know that already. You sound like another poster I know on a different subject. As hard as one may, he will not accept the orthodox definition, accepted, historical and biblical definition of the word in question. You are doing the same thing.

Just like the rich man in hell?? He repented! Not only for himself but for his brothers as well. Not even Lazarus was able to cool the tip of his tongue, so he desired; nor could he warn his brothers. He will be there forever; will never have a second chance.
Do you not think that everyone who tastes of the fires of Hell will immediately repent only to escape them. Of course they will.

I just quoted you scripture where he did teach it. So you have a problem. Yours is hermeneutical. Christ will not contradict himself and I know that my interpretation of Scripture on this topic is right.

That is as illogical as it is foolish!
It is a universal negative, and you cannot prove it.
Can you go back into every month and day of the 1500 years before Calvin, ask every person that ever lived if they believed in eternal security?
Of course you can't. You can't prove such an all-inclusive negative. No one can. Narrow it down. You can't even prove if all the major sects, denominations, religious groups throughout that span of history believed it or not. You are spouting of unverified steam--hot air, and it is all evaporating.
None of it is refuted by Scripture.
I am not a Calvinist. I don't believe in Calvinism. Calvinism has nothing to do with eternal security. In fact Calvinists believe in "the perseverance of the saints" which, if studied thoroughly, is not eternal security. You are confused. You shouldn't post about things you know not.

That is not what he did. That is the way the KJV translated it, but the Greek word is "proclaim." He proclaimed his victory to the already defeated ones in Sheol/hades--those who initially rebelled against him following Lucifer; those who were used in bringing evil upon the world such that God destroyed it with a Flood (Gen.6:1-3). He proclaimed his victory. There was no gospel preached anywhere.

That is heresy, and a condemnation of the words of Christ.

 

So you are claiming that "ainios" means ONLY Age by ALL or the MAJORITY of Greek linguistics OR are you selectively taking a FEW Greek Linguistics opinion and/or just selecting ONE possible meaning provided by Greek Linguistics?

 

W.E. Vine claims that both "aion" and "aionios" are both used for "age" and eternal and depending on context can speak of a duration undefined but not endless or a duration undefined and endless - Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words - p. 43 under "E".

Thayer's Greek Lexicon claims that "aion" has the following meanings in the New Testament:

1. Age
2. An unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

Thayer's Greek Lexicon claims that "aionos" has the following meanings in the New Testament:

1. Without beginning or end, that which always has been and always will be
2. Without beginning
3. Without end, never to cease, everlasting

Bauer, Arndt and Gingrich in their "A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament give the following meanings:

A. Aion

1. Very long time, eternity
2. Segment of time
3. the world
4. The aeon as a person

B. Aionios

1. Without beginning
2. without beginning or end
3. without end


I could not find any Greek Lexicographer who agrees with you that it is limited to the meaning of "age" or a limited time ONLY.

Please provide just ONE Greek Lexicon that limits aion or aionios to merely a limited duration of time and denies it cannot also mean eternal or everlasting duration? Just ONE please?

 

Then you are making the claim that after the resurrection the righteous are once again only given temporal duration of life and subject to death again. That must be the case if their life is only for a LIMITED duration.

Then you are making the claim that God Himself is not eternal but is a created being with a LIMITED duration as that is the only possible conclusion if you deny He is "aionios" or "from everlasting to everlasting"?

Then you are making the claim that punishment in hell is not eternal but is only for a limited duration and so the expressions "day and night forever and ever" really mean for a "limited number of days and nights."

You cannot select one of the above and deny the others as all three use the same Greek terms to describe their duration.

 

Other famous Greek Lexicographers who join the list with the above are Milligan and William Barclay, Colin Brown, W. Robertson Nicoll, A.T. Robertson and the list goes on.

Name one Greek lexicographer that limits the meaning of these terms as you claim?

 

See my first answers within your post, in red.

You accuse me of heresy, and you have the nerve to warn me about name calling. What does that make you?

 

I am saying that "aion" invariably means "age"; it is the basis of the word "eon", and an eon is invariably an age. Neither word denotes an eternity. To translate it as an eternity is being dishonest. Those who did it had an agenda, and it wasn't to maintain the teaching of Jesus.

This is proven again and again by the original usage of the term in the literal New Testament.

 

If your "invariably" claim is true then why does every Greek Lexicographer repudiate your restriction? I can find no reputable Greek Lexicographer that agrees with you. What then is your Greek authority for this claim?

Don't claim the scriptures as your authority because the scriptures use this very term repeatedly to characterize God's duration and that cannot possibly be limited to an "age." Neither can resurrection "life" of the saints be limited to an "age."

 

In Isaiah 26:4 which modern versions mistranslate as the Lord is the Rock eternal, or the everlasting Rock, the literal rendering is "Yahweh is a rock of ages." Does that bring any particular hymn to mind?

In the following scriptures where the word is mistranslated as "eternal", the correct original literal rendering is "age-abiding":

Matthew 18:8; 19:16,29; 25:41,46 Where verse 46 is wrongly translated "eternal punishment", the literal rendering is "age-abiding correction"!!!

John 3:15,16,36; 4:14,36; 5:24,39; 6:27,40,54,68; 10:28; 12:25,50; 17:2,3

Romans 1:20; 6:23

2 Cor. 4:17,18

I Tim. 1:16,17

Heb. 9:12

I john 5:11,13

These are just some of the relevant verses; I didn't list the ones in Mark and Luke.

This is sufficient proof that Jesus did not teach an eternal hell, and that wherever the word "aion/aionios" is used, it invariably means "age" or "age-abiding".

The doctrine of an eternal hell is of pagan origin.

When Jesus spoke of God's judgment upon the wicked, he did so with words that implied a limited, corrective punishment. Specifically, he referred to divine judgment as aionios kolasis, meaning age-long chastisement, or correction. This is consistently taught in all four Gospels. It is borne out by such verses as Matthew 25:46, referenced above in its original literal rendering.

And as I have also shown, "aion" in the OT also meant an age.

This is irrefutable.

Seems as if God is not as vengeful and vindictive as some of you here.

 

Ps 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

The Greek Septuigent uses "aionos" in the above text.

Isa 40:28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.


1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal,[aeon] immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

The Scriptures confirm God is without beginning or ending and thus the word "aionos" an "aeon" when used to describe his character or duration cannot possibly be rendered or understood to mean limited to an "age".

In other words you are denying the eternity of God's Being and nature. One cannot deny the eternity of God without also embracing He has a beginning and and ending as does every "age." Thus you are rejecting the God of Scriptures which is as equal an error as the error of JW's or Mormons about the nature of God.


Again, no one denies aeon and aionos can be used for a undefined limited duration but what Greek authority do you have to limit either "aeon" or "aeonios" to merely "age"?

 

See my answers in red.

God's existence is unto the "ages of ages". That does not negate but rather affirms and confirms that "aion" still and invariably means "age", wherever it is used in the Bible.

 

"ages of ages" means eternal duration. Are you denying the eternal duration of God? The term "aionos" is being used to describe an attribute of God in regard to time. Are you claiming that the attribute of God is a LIMITED DURATION?

Again, who besides YOU is the authority for defining this term as a LIMITED DURATION???

 

"ages of ages" means eternal duration. Are you denying the eternal duration of God? The term "aionos" is being used to describe an attribute of God in regard to time. Are you claiming that the attribute of God is a LIMITED DURATION?

Again, who besides YOU is the authority for defining this term as a LIMITED DURATION???

 

What Greek Authority do you have to claim these terms must be interpreted as a limited duration of time?d thei

You can't just make claims about Greek words when every Greek authority I know disputes your claim!

Anyone can do what you are doing! Anyone can claim a certain Greek word means only one thing and not another! But what basis is there for making such a claim?

Anyone can claim verses with a certain term must be translate their way but what grammatical/lexicographical basis supports that claim?

 

Originally Posted by DHK

 

You obviously 'ain't seen nothin' yet' what sin does or is, brother. May God never let you see it or you will soon change your mind about the eternal hell, for no eternal hell can be long enough for what sin can do and does.

Can you see Christ in the night he was betrayed? Do you see your own sins in that night?

No?

Then you won't understand the eternal hell.

Yes?

Then you have had a glimpse of reality.

For what Christ suffered in that night, was the Kingdom of his Father regained and retrieved in the depths of hell, was satan cast down into the pit and the Son of the King set at the right hand of God in heavenly glory of Majesty.

As visible as invisible and invisible as visible, are both heaven and hell in “that Selfsame-day”.

Few in hell will miss their own experience of hell. Let me put it this way - Nobody's going to hell; only some won't stay in hell forever. It's called 'grace'.

So how do you work out any logic of hell that is not eternal?

 

Michael Wrenn, nothing will change your mind than a change of heart and for that you need Eternity in the twinkling of and eye or eternity in all ages won't set it right for you.

 

First, "Biblicist" and "Dr. Walter", I see no need to address a post by one person using two usernames. Is one the alter ego of the other?