Immoral Gas

Let's combine this with the wine thread. We can argue about belche's grape juice.

 

If so, then exactly how much of the ethanol fuel must be used in the production/distribution of food [farm machinery, trucks, et al] for this to not be so?

 

Inefficient, expensive, outmoded, political fodder, and a very poor use of resources--YES.

Immoral? NO Unless some politico decides to dedicate resources that could be better used elsewhere just to produce the stuff to make money to line his own pockets. That is obviously immoral. And, come to think of it, describes quite a number of pet political projects through the years.

 

This thread is funny.

 

This thread is great!!! I love toilet humor (NOT).

 

I had some immoral gas in a meeting today...

 

Shotgun - I listen to that show on saturday mornings - If any of you all want to hear a great radio show (i think you can tune in over the net) Ed Wallace broadcasts on 570 KLIF in dallas from 8 am to 1 pm central time. He discusses cars and the impact the automobile industry makes and has made on the US and the world. Dont expect how to repair anything, and he is a big supporter of the US car industry (not much of a fan of consumer reports!)

http://www.insideautomotive.com/ this is Ed Wallaces website, with links to his articles in the FT Worth Start Telegram where he as written a column for years

http://www.klif.com/ click on weekend shows

ed was one of the first to recognize the dangers of MTBE (now that was immoral), and has spent much time on the dangers of ethanol and other bio fuels

 

OK, so some say it is immoral because it is taking food that can be used by the poor to be used for fuel... Is this what they are saying?

But on the other hand, if we do this, it supports farmers, they make money, it helps the economy, so there are less poor.

It also lowers the price of Gas, so the poor can have more money in their pockets as well to buy other products from the farmers, and the farmers make more money... which the farms need now.

Of course this is all ideal and simplistic.. but I can see the up side as well.

 

I (being the "Brit" that I am :laugh: ) had an even different thought on reading the thread title. I was thinking about gaseous substances like hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen. I wasn't thinking about liquids at all. Now I realise the thread is about using the liquid, ethanol, as fuel for cars. I know that ethanol is alcoholic, so is the OP suggestion that it is wrong to "feed" alcohol to a piece of machinery?

 

Did someone say "immoral gas"

 

RE : Immoral Gas ?

Hi All !

Here's another way to look at it... The increasing cost of corn and food products ( cattle,pigs,chickens & canned goods,etc.) that burden everybody,especially the poor.

To wit, corn is the staple food for many poor Mexicans and other poor people in other countries, now their meager resources are further strained by run ups in the price of corn in anticipation of huge profits in the ethanol game.

Our grocery bills go up also...

If that's not immoral,then what is ?

I've posted two links to articles in Wikipedia regarding using methanol ( made from non food sources ) and fuel made from coal liquification. Both are existing technologies and there's plenty of available resources, so we don't need to use food crops for fuel.

But, the "earth worshippers" aka "environmentalists" are opposed to coal liquification as fuel...

In Christ,

Dale

 

Immoral gas kills two dinosaurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLP4QkflB-o

 

:laugh: :laugh:
You're so bad!
:laugh:

 

Now that's what I call ex-STINK-tion!

:laugh: :laugh:

 

Correct you are Shot Gun - gas mileage is about 20% less with ethanol and the only reason it could even be construed as "cheaper" is the govt subsidies that are provided.

It is much more expensive to produce a gallon of ethanol that it is to produce a gallon of gas

 

Hmmm, I don't drink alcohol. See the poll forum.

I don't like this form of gas anyway. I like my dinosaur fuel. :thumbs:

 

Personally I think it's a little narrow minded not to at least consider the moral impact of ethanol. Obviously it's a food source, but it goes beyond simply taking some corn away from some people, which, could be a problem in some people's eyes.

The bigger problem is that it's offsetting costs. Why do people buy ethanol? Because it's cheaper. They think at least. However, due to getting less miles per gallon immediately, and then having the price of other things rise, especially the cost of their engine to have it built to handle E85... it's just kind of a stupid idea.

The biggest moral dilemma is the price raising of other food sources. The use of ethanol is driving up corn prices first of all... and also everything that eats corn. The price of chicken, beef, and milk is rising because of the corn prices. The use of ethanol makes feeding chickens 40% more expensive.

So basically, just because somebody wants gas a little cheaper, they are making EVERYBODY, including poor people who don't drive much or at all, pay more for food, which is absolutely stupid because they're really not saving anything once you consider the higher price they paid for their engines and the diminished gas mileage they're getting.

It's really not right that middle class consumers can affect food prices for everybody, which can really hurt lower class consumers, just because they think they're saving a little money. It's doing nothing but offsetting costs to other people... basically legalized stealing where they really don't end up ahead when it's all said and done with... and the only thing that happens is that everybody pays more for their food.

If you thought that you could save 20% at the fuel pump but knew that this would make all the kids at the local schools pay 20% more for lunch and you had to buy a special more expensive engine to get that price, would you still do it? That's basically what's happening.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/markets/2007-03-09-corn_N.htm

How could this NOT be a moral dilemma? The only moral solution to our fuel crisis is to stop driving as much... not start figuring out ways to burn our food in our cars.