Independent Baptist

[Allan]

It was because of the inroads of liberalism back in those days in the SBC that the independent Baptist movement developed in the South. (In the North it was because of the liberalism in the ABC.) The early leaders of the independent Baptists in the South were all originally Southern Baptists.

(1) J. Frank Norris became persona non grata in the SBC back in the 1930's because of his exposes of liberal inroads into the SBC. He founded the World Baptist Fellowship, out of which also came the Bible Baptist Fellowship.

(2) John R. Rice (my grandfather) grew up and was educated SBC. In the 1930's (when he was in his mid-30's) he, along with Norris, opposed on the radio and in print the evolution being taught at his alma mater, Baylor U. For that he was told by Texas Convention bigwigs that he would never again preach in the SBC. After being blackballed, he began starting independent Baptist churches through tent meetings, then founded the Sword of the Lord.

(3) Lee Roberson founded Tennessee Temple College because of the liberalism in the SBC schools. However, he was essentially forced out of the convention for having an independent college.

Very true. Liberalism was in direct contention with the Fundamental truths we did and now express, but at that time there was some serious problems creeping in and gaining strength and ground.

Being that I attended TTU for a couple of years (93, 94) I remember distinctly being in my Old Testiment Survey Class and my professor began stating to the effect - It's good your here at a solid Independent Baptist College and not an SBC one. They will teach you, just as their churches will, the Virgin Birth is not true and the scriptures are fallable, ext...

I was shocked being that I was raised SBC and NEVER heard such from any SBC Pastor I had ever encountered, raised my hand and stated such. The Prof. stated "then it must not have been SBC". That was my first introduction to recent (at the time) history of what had happened to the SBC. But they no longer hold to, view, or agree with those heresies as they began to. Praise God!!

 

[John of Japan]

Very true. Liberalism was in direct contention with the Fundamental truths we did and now express, but at that time there was some serious problems creeping in and gaining strength and ground.

Being that I attended TTU for a couple of years (93, 94) I remember distinctly being in my Old Testiment Survey Class and my professor began stating to the effect - It's good your here at a solid Independent Baptist College and not an SBC one. They will teach you, just as their churches will, the Virgin Birth is not true and the scriptures are fallable, ext...

I was shocked being that I was raised SBC and NEVER heard such from any SBC Pastor I had ever encountered, raised my hand and stated such. The Prof. stated "then it must not have been SBC". That was my first introduction to recent (at the time) history of what had happened to the SBC. But they no longer hold to, view, or agree with those heresies as they began to. Praise God!!

It took awhile for the facts of the SBC conservative resurgence to penetrate independent Baptist strongholds. Some of us still haven't caught on. :smilewinkgrin: Personally, I began following what was happening and cheering on the conservatives from the time Harold Lindsell's Battle for the Bible came out. I praise the Lord for what He has done in the SBC.

Having said that, unfortunately there is much damage left over from the past liberal influence in the SBC, especially on the mission fields of the world. In Japan, liberals evidently control the schools and much of the convention. I have been told by a Japanese who goes to a Baputesto Renmei church (the Japanese version of the SBC) that the Japanese convention has cut off ties from the SBC, and that SBC missionaries to Japan no longer work with the Japanese convention. The same lady told me that the pastor of the church she goes to in the morning (she comes to ours in the evening) recently preached that Hell was an outmoded idea, and no one should believe in it anymore. :tear:

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

A good read on the conservative resurgence is "a Hill On Which to Die" by Dr. Paul Pressler. Of course the libs in the SBC to this day make their disdain (putting it mildly) known toward the Judge as well as Dr. Patterson.

 

[Allan]

It took awhile for the facts of the SBC conservative resurgence to penetrate independent Baptist strongholds. Some of us still haven't caught on. :smilewinkgrin: Personally, I began following what was happening and cheering on the conservatives from the time Harold Lindsell's Battle for the Bible came out. I praise the Lord for what He has done in the SBC.

Having said that, unfortunately there is much damage left over from the past liberal influence in the SBC, especially on the mission fields of the world. In Japan, liberals evidently control the schools and much of the convention. I have been told by a Japanese who goes to a Baputesto Renmei church (the Japanese version of the SBC) that the Japanese convention has cut off ties from the SBC, and that SBC missionaries to Japan no longer work with the Japanese convention. The same lady told me that the pastor of the church she goes to in the morning (she comes to ours in the evening) recently preached that Hell was an outmoded idea, and no one should believe in it anymore. :tear:

Very true. All sin sets forth events that continue to play long after we ourselves might have repented. When I attended SEBTS (Southeaster Baptist Theological Semenary - SBC) in 2000. A church that we visited had a pastor that graduated in that liberal era. He allowed me to preach for him one Sunday morning (a mistake he didn't make twice:laugh: ) I preached on the bible doctrince of hell and what must I do to be saved. That was the last time he allowed me to preach there. He doesn't believe hell is literal and has never taught them such things. BUt I will never forget a man of about 70 or so came out and told me that the last time he heard a sermon on Hell was when he was about 23, and he got saved when he realized that was where he belonged. So I know that it is still rippling out there.

PS. On a kinder note, my mom and I were discussing the BB and she made mention that you are one of her favorite posters. She stated you have well reasoned discussion, very well knowledge but with a blessed humble spirit. I thought that would bless you brother. Even when we don't know we are being appraised of in our conversation, it does influence and affect many we do not know.

 

[John of Japan]

Very true. All sin sets forth events that continue to play long after we ourselves might have repented. When I attended SEBTS (Southeaster Baptist Theological Semenary - SBC) in 2000. A church that we visited had a pastor that graduated in that liberal era. He allowed me to preach for him one Sunday morning (a mistake he didn't make twice:laugh: ) I preached on the bible doctrince of hell and what must I do to be saved. That was the last time he allowed me to preach there. He doesn't believe hell is literal and has never taught them such things. BUt I will never forget a man of about 70 or so came out and told me that the last time he heard a sermon on Hell was when he was about 23, and he got saved when he realized that was where he belonged. So I know that it is still rippling out there.

Back in the middle of the SBC fight I went to language school with the SBC missionaries. Generally I had good fellowship with them, but one day one said to me, "John, I don't know if you know what is going on in the convention, but some people are saying the Bible is inerrant and causing a big fuss...." I said, "I'm one of 'em!" We did have a good conversation after that about the deficiencies of the Living Bible as compared to the Greek, though.

PS. On a knider note, my mom and I were discussing the BB and she made mention that you are one of her favorite posters. She stated you have well reasoned discussion, very well knowledge but with a blessed humble spirit. I thought that would bless you brother. Even when we don't know we are being appraised of in our conversation, it does influence and affect many we do not know.

Well that's a very kind thing for your mother to say! I am blessed and encouraged. I don't want to post here if I can't be a blessing. :wavey:

 

[StefanM]

First: No, you have not been told the truth, NOW but it was true in the 60 and 70's. There was a time when the SBC Colleges DID teach the denial of the Virgin Birth, inerrancy, and other such hereies. But then what was known as the "Conservative Resurgence" happened which God allowed for the SBC to come back to the truth.
Read here for a better grasp of how far they began to fall, and how strongly we came back to the truth:
http://www.floridabaptistwitness.com/2478.article
But you can find more about it for yourself from there. :thumbs:

Secondly: When an SBC church sends money to SBC general funds it is allocated to all its agencies which includes colleges among them. However, you as a church CAN send money specifically where you chose it to go.

I'm not sure all of the colleges have been "cleansed." The seminaries have, but that's because they are convention entities. The colleges are not operated by the SBC. Some are operated by state conventions (like my alma mater), and others might be more independent.

 

[Bro. Williams]

Thanks for the answers to my last post.

Since then I read that the SBC is very much non-premill, strong amill, and some post-mill.

This was specifically dealing with Revelation 6:2 and who the rider on the white horse is (in comparison to Rev 19). This should probably be it's own thread (the white horse issue), but I figured it had been discussed before on the BB and didn't want to do a recent rerun.

 

[Bro. Williams]

To that last post: my question should have been there...

Where does the SBC stand as a whole on the millinium issue (as I am sure that some pastors stand on their own on this as well)?

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Thanks for the answers to my last post.

Since then I read that the SBC is very much non-premill, strong amill, and some post-mill.

This was specifically dealing with Revelation 6:2 and who the rider on the white horse is (in comparison to Rev 19). This should probably be it's own thread (the white horse issue), but I figured it had been discussed before on the BB and didn't want to do a recent rerun.

You were miss informed.

 

[ccrobinson]

Thanks a bunch, guys, for answering my questions. Much appreciated.

 

[saturneptune]

posted in error

 

[donnA]

This thread was not supose to be an SBC thread, you guys are way off topic.

 

[Accountable]

A somewhat related question since the SBC was brought up. I have alwyas heard that it was nearly impossible to get a church out of the SBC without losing holdings, property, or savings. I have never believed one way or another in regards to if this was true or not, becuase I had no way or finding out and since I attend an IFB church, it really didn't matter. Can anyone expund further?

I am on the mission field in Mexico. I traveled to a village to hold a evangelistic meeting. To our suprise there was a SBC in the village. Before I go any further, I in no way am trying to demean the SBC to which I am not affiliated. I would disagree with some of the structuring but this is not the blog to deal with this matter.
Staying on track, there were about 20 people in this congregation who had been without a Pastor for some time. They approached us for help. I was told that if they withdrew from the convention, they would loose their church building which they had built. It evidently was in the name of the convention or something. They had been without a pastor or teacher for years with no help. Frotunately a precher from another village has come to help them. They seem to be doing much better now.

 

[Accountable]

Concerning IB, I am one. But the term IB doesn't tell everything.
Being a missionary, I have been in numerous IB churches and SBC. Within the IB and SBC, I have been in many trhat were solid AV. I have been in others that were very loose on what version to use. Some were very modest and conservative. Others were very liberal and some contemporary with their worship.
Most believe OSAS, simpe belief, but I have been in some that were calvinistic, and even some that believed free will grace. (Free will baptists) Some were pre trib, other, mid, and some post. I even met one who was pan-trib. He believed it would all "pan out!":laugh: Some are simple salvation while others are lordship.
Some preach the whole council of God, others choose to disregard the Gospel of the Kingdom.

To say that they are all the same is humerous! Also conserning the way SBC handles missions, while I do not agree with the co-op, (I believe it by passes the authority of the local church) SBC churches are not required to handle missions in this manner. I know of many SBC that support missions independent of the the general board.

Hope this helps.

 

[tinytim]

I grew up IFB ... (IB with the F :laugh: )

When I got married I joined my wife's church an ABC/USA church..
I got called to preach there, and have been in one every since...
And pastor one today.


That's my background...

When I was growing up, I heard horror stories about how "associational" churches had no control of their church. That the denomination told them what to do...

And that the Independents were the only biblical mode..

When I became ABC, I soon realize that what we were taught about associational baptist churches was a bunch of hogwash.

Every ABC church I've attended is completely autonomous (denominiational word for "independent" lol)
No one, and I mean no one, can tell our church what to do...

Even within the ABC/USA we choose to support what we want...
There are some things we don't support.
Some things like IM (international ministries) we do support...

But also as a church we have independent missionaries we support apart from the ABC IM... One of our missionaries is a pretty nice fellow from here on BB... Can anyone say Sushi?

Anyway, even SBC, and ABC, and others are independent when it comes down to it.

I do have a question... can a church be a SBC church if they don't cooperate with the SBC mission board?

We can as ABCs... We can still be affiliated with the ABC/USA and never support IM...Although, I couldn't imagine why we would not want to.

Independent Baptist simply means no one can tell your church what to do.

 

[donnA]

So, if I get this right, IB will have similar beliefs of my SBC church, just not tied to a denomination, they are on their ow.
So they aren't accountable to anyone for what they believe and teach, whatever way they choose is automatically the right way.
Just thinking out loud.

 

[donnA]

thanks Tim