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Featured Insincere gospel offer Part 2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by canadyjd, Mar 2, 2021.

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  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I see, "Jesus is not The Savior".

    Some more people are called to teach nothing but, "Jesus is not The Savior", on here, and around the World.

    They are not called by God, but that IS their 'ministry' (of darkness).
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus stated that he will lose NONE of His own, but he was mistaken?
     
  3. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a thread on this topic that you seem to be interested in? If so, leave a link in your next reply to me or go to that thread & leave a post with @ towards my nick to draw me to it. Thanks in advance.
     
  4. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    No. You do not see. Those unrepentant saints & former believers left behind in becoming damned as vessels unto dishonor BUT still in His House testify that Jesus Christ is still their Savior for He still abides per 2 Timothy 2:13 ; they were just disqualified as in becoming reprobates to be of the firstfruits of the resurrection. The prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living, and although he can never get it back, he is still son.
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    So you would hold to either partial rapture, or else Millinual exclusion?
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    No, He was, of course, not mistaken, according to a Saved, Bible Believers, position on it.
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Damned vessels into dishonor and those Jesus NEVER KNEW, where damned to The Baptism by Jesus, in Lake of Fire.

    Those who teach, "Jesus is not the Savior" also teach that all dead people have gone to 'a better place'.

    " they were just disqualified as in becoming reprobates to be of the firstfruits of the resurrection" is twisted wickedness.
     
  8. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Scripture proves you wrong, brother.

    2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. KJV

    So even if they deny Him for why they will be denied entrance to the Marriage Super in Heaven, He still abides even in former believers left behind from the pre great tribulation rapture event.

    Paul goes on to give an example of a former believer and yet "nevertheless" that foundation remains along with His seal for why they are called to depart from iniquity so they can be received as vessels unto honor.

    But if they do not depart from iniquity, note verse 20 below on how those vessels unto dishonor are still in His House as they shall be resurrected after the great tribulation.

    2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. KJV

    That is rightly dividing the word of truth because those in iniquity that purge themselves with His help before the Bridegroom comes shall be received as vessels unto honor in His House.

    So what happens to those that do not depart from iniquity when the Bridegroom comes? Jesus will finish His work in the unrepentant saints & former believers left behind by purging everything off of that foundation that denies Him or defile the temple of God ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) by destroying the physical body which is physical death ( 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 ) but the spirit is saved per 1 Corinthians 3:15 )
     
    #108 Hark, Mar 5, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2021
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The Holy Spirit will NEVER unseal Himself from One whom Jesus has saved!
     
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  10. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    11I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
     
  11. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    I agree per this reference below.

    Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. KJV

    But because the Holy Spirit can be grieved and believers can defile the Temple of God, they are at risk being left behind at the rapture event even though Jesus Christ still abides ( 2 Timothy 2:12-13 ) & thus they are still saved.

    That is why former believers & unrepentant saints should depart from iniquity with His help NOW before He comes as the Bridegroom at the rapture event. 2 Timothy 2:18-21
     
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I can tell you there no millennium 'anything' and Jesus' one and only Return is the only, 'anything', that is a Rapture. That is the Consumation of The Age and The End of Time and this World.

    Those holding, "Jesus is not the Savior" add dozens of various accursed gospels into The End Times.

    Jesus is the Savior and Jesus is Returning, Once.
     
  13. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    John the Baptist was rebuking the Pharisees and Sadducees that had come to his water baptism, knowing they were not seeking to repent from their sins that others were doing in confessing their sins in seeking his water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. John the Baptist goes on to prophesy that the old ways of becoming the sons of God will be over soon when the One he is prophesying about will come AND in according to the Good News, those who do not look to Jesus Christ to lay aside every weight & sin in running that race to bear fruit as His disciples, are at risk of being left behind to the fire coming on the earth.

    If you compare John 15:1-8 which is about discipleship & not about salvation, then it is about that race that we are to trust Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin to finish it for us in being received by Him as that vessel unto honor in His House.

    John 15:1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. KJV

    Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. KJV

    1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. KJV

    So there is more at stake than the loss of rewards of crowns when one can become a castaway as a saved believer as Paul said that could happen to him as well for not abiding in Him as His disciple.

    So again, no loss of salvation but the loss of being a part of the firstfruits of the resurrection.

    Here, John the Baptist is prophesying about unbelievers, including the Jews, that reject believing in Jesus Christ, of being cast into what has to be described as either hell, the holding place before the lake of fire or the lake of fire, which in the end, hell will be cast into the lake of fire anyway..

    Discernment is needed because the first reference is about the hope of the firstfruits of the resurrection in bringing forth fruit as His disciples after having been saved by Him... and even though it is in the same chapter, John is speaking about something else shortly afterwards in regards to how one is saved & not saved for where the unbelievers are going, including the unbelieving Jews since being a Jew is the tree that will be cut down for how we will be saved..
     
  14. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Explain His warnings to His disciples of being cut off for not being ready in Luke 12:40-49. Note how those cut off for not being ready are still called His servants for how they receive the measures of stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready & lesser stripes for the lack of knowledge they had for not being ready.

    Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? KJV
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, was asking Hark if he held to either of those views!
     
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  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    'and will cut him in sunder,
    and appoint him his portion
    with
    unbelievers;


    whose portion is the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
    which is the second death, ( Revelation 21:8 )

    and by these are meant, not only the Heathens,
    who never heard of Christ; nor the Jews only,
    who disbelieved the Messiah,
    and rejected him when he came;

    but all deists and atheists, who deny revelation;

    even all unbelievers of, and scoffers at the coming of Christ,
    and who put away the evil day far from them;

    compare with this ( Job 20:29 )

    (See Gill on Matthew 24:50),

    (See Gill on Matthew 24:51).

    from:
    Luke 12:46 - Meaning and Commentary on Bible Verse
     
  17. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    You cannot apply those 2 different references just because they used the term "portions".

    I point out to you that He still called them servants for why they were getting certain measures of stripes per the knowledge they had or not had for not being ready in Luke 12:40-49. Compare the why they are getting stripes to the prophesy about the New Covenant below.

    Psalm 89:25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

    Now pay attention to nevertheless in the following verses about how those children are still His & thus still saved.

    33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. 35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

    That means former believers & unrepentant saints that gets left behind, God will finish His work in them to His glory as Savior for simply believing in Him, even in His name.

    That is why He will purge the wood, stubble, and hay off of that foundation that defiles the temple of God, but the foundation remains as does that seal of adoption, albeit, they will miss out on their first inheritance like Esau did.
     
  18. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "portion" isn't the principal determinant between the two.

    and will cut him in sunder,
    and appoint him his portion
    with
    unbelievers;


    whose portion is the lake which burns with fire and brimstone,
    which is the second death, ( Revelation 21:8 )

    are lost, whether they were called servants (not of Jesus, regardless of their supposed role, but of darkness, in actuality) or not.
     
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    In scripture, we preach (announce), not offer the gospel. We announce that whoever believes has eternal life. An offer of the gospel instead suggests salvation has not yet happened to them, and it's up to them to react, saving themselves by that work.
     
  20. Hark

    Hark Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing, but...

    Do you know that there is a fiery calamity coming on the earth as described by Peter in 2 Peter 3:3-15 ? It ties in with the one third of the earth being burned up as described in Revelation 8:7. Jesus also warned about this calamity in Luke 17:26-37 where Christians are not being persecuted in the great tribulation but living as we are now in being able to buy & sell & work the fields. The times of us being raptured is the time we are living in now for why He is warning believers to be ready or else.

    So when I apply Luke 12:40-49. Jesus is talking about the fire that is coming on the earth for why those saints for not being ready as found abiding in His words ( John 15:1-8 *note verse 6 ) are cut off to be with the unbelievers to face that fire coming on a third of the earth & for the "survivors" to face the coming great tribulation as a result when the New Word Order sets up the mark of the beast system for the rest of the two thirds part of the world to buy & sell in order to survive after that calamity.
     
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