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Featured Intinction

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Adonia, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    To answer the question of a poster from a previous thread now closed. In the Latin Rite I have experienced intinction but one time. How Holy Communion is given is decided by the local Bishop. In the Eastern Orthodox Church I believe Holy Communion is done but one way, through the dunking of the element of bread in the wine or "intinction" as we Catholics call it.

    Why intinction? I believe it is done so that a chalice need not be used in addition to a plate. The same thing results, the ingestion of both elements, the bread and wine. It is done in one swoop, with the communicant not having to handle either the cup or the host separately.
     
    #1 Adonia, Jul 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    Be honest, no one performs the Lord's Supper as Christ Jesus did two millennials past.
    How your church performs the ceremony is of little concern to me. That your church may teach salvation by means of partaking in the Lord's Supper is of concern to me.
    So many have died in their sins, thinking their salvation was tied to a ceremony rather than being fully connected to God's gracious choice to Redeem them and make them alive with Christ.
     
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  3. RCommando

    RCommando Member

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    This is why I'm a proponent of receiving our Lord under only one species. The entirety of His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity resides under the appearance of the wafer, so why offer the chalice to anyone? It's only an opportunity for desecration and messy handling. Also not a fan of people receiving in their filthy, unconsecrated hands.
     
  4. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    Heck, we didn't even need Jesus to die for our sins. Just perform the ritual and eat the wine dunked wafer and you're saved. A little hocus pocus and alacazam for good measure and everyone's sins are absolved...
     
  5. Sai

    Sai Active Member

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    Throw in a relic at least
     
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  6. RCommando

    RCommando Member

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    Apparently, this is a hard teaching... that you can't accept?

    50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

    52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

    53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

    60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    If you read a little further, verse 63, Jesus explains the words that He spoke were “spiritual”.

    Whatever else that may mean, it certainly means He did not intend a literal eating of His flesh.

    That is also a hard saying for those raised believing a literal eating of flesh

    peace to you
     
  8. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    Do you think Jesus was speaking literally or figuratively in this passage?
    Let us evaluate the whole text, the section you neglected to share.

    John 6:1-2,5,22,25-58 After this Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias. And a large crowd was following him, because they saw the signs that he was doing on the sick.
    Lifting up his eyes, then, and seeing that a large crowd was coming toward him, Jesus said to Philip, “Where are we to buy bread, so that these people may eat?”
    On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone. When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you come here?” Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves. Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal.” Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” They said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.” Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” So the Jews grumbled about him, because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” They said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?” Jesus answered them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me— not that anyone has seen the Father except he who is from God; he has seen the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the breadthe fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

    Look at the passage. Jesus has been speaking figuratively throughout the whole passage.

    But, you seem to want Jesus to be speaking literally. You want him to not be a human, but instead be a loaf of bread that you can eat. Why is that? Is it because you want the control over your own destiny and you think you can save yourself by eating a loaf of bread dipped in wine?
    Yet, Jesus so very clearly tells you in this passage that the way to salvation is paved by God giving Jesus those whom He wills to be saved and no one will be lost whom the Father has given to Jesus. In fact, no one can believe, except the Father gives them the capacity to believe.
    That removes all the control out of your hands and places them in God's hands. That means eating a piece of bread dunked in wine cannot and never will save you. You have zero control over your destiny. You are at the mercy of a holy and righteous God and that should terrify you as a wretched sinner. I know it does me.
    Yet I have these words of truth:
    Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    But God. Let that phrase sink deep into your soul.
    Not, "but by by partaking in the sacrament of communion". No. That's not it.
    The phrase is..."But God."
    Ponder on this and know that communion doesn't save you.
     
  9. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Adonia, is this true? AustinC did not include any supporting documentation for his concern.
     
  10. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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  11. AustinC

    AustinC Active Member

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    Will this help?
    By eating and drinking at the Eucharist, the Church makes His memorial, and by the power of the Holy Spirit God remembers Christ’s Passion and saves us. In this way, Christ’s Passion is present among us. His death is not merely a past historical event, but a present Sacrifice, effective and powerful in our midst. The Sacrifice is present on the Holy Table, and by partaking of the Bread and Cup, we partake of His Body and Blood, His Sacrifice.

    The Eucharist is therefore our participation in the saving self-offering of Christ. When we eat His Body and drink His Blood, we receive His divine life and abide in His salvation, receiving forgiveness, healing, transformation, and the power of the Holy Spirit. The Eucharist is thus the fiery center of our Christian life. It is also what binds us together one with another as the Church. Indeed, the Eucharist makes us into the Church, renewing us and reconstituting us week by week as the Body of Christ.

    The Eucharist: Its Meaning and Place in Our Salvation
     
  12. Oseas3

    Oseas3 Member

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    Friend, the formal ceremony you have exposed about Holy Communion besides any others systems of ceremonies, they signifies nothing before the eyes the Lord Jesus Christ, the appearance or mode of the ceremony is not relevant, but what is in the heart of the participants of the ceremony, understand? You're straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel.

    JESUS said: “Woe to you, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they
    (inside of heart of the participants) are full of extortion and iniquity. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.

    Paul Apostle did write to the church of Corinthians, saying: 1Cor.11:v. 29-30 - 29 He that eateth and drinketh unworthily,
    eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.(or died?)

    What do you think will happen now in the end of the times with the idolaters, followers of Roman Catholic Church ruled by the Beast of sea, or even with the followers of Ortodox Church, among others apostates churches called as movements Gospel, and so on, whose adepts are idolaters, or apostates, or false Christians?
    They that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to themselves, not discerning the Lord's body.

    What kind of damnation?
    JESUS answer this question. This is what He says: How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

    By the way, the plagues has already started against the 7 hills or mountains where the Great Whore sits, they are Europe, where is located the headquarters of the Beast of sea (Revelation 13:1-10), and Asia, and Africa, and Oceania(Australia), and America do Norte, and America Central, and America do Sul.
    One of these 7 heads will be wounded to death or mortally, and it is South America specifically. Be prepared.

    Its it.
     
  13. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    The teaching of the RCC is that re-birth requires water baptism to the extreme that an unborn, under certain conditions, is to be baptized in the womb to insure it will go to heaven should it die prior to physical birth.

    Can Catholics be born again? - Legatus.
    "The term “born again” is a bit strange in Catholic colloquialism. Nevertheless, through Baptism we are spiritually born or “born again.”

    If I understand the current article correctly, the RCC also teaches that partaking of the Eucharist also results in new-birth.
     
  14. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    The intinction practiced in Latin Rite churches (and some Protestant churches) is different from the practice in most Orthodox churches.

    It has been the practice in most Orthodox churches for 800 years or so to drop pieces of bread into the chalice and administer it with a spoon. This may have been a result of worshipers' negligently dropping bread crumbs (since the Orthodox use leavened bread) or it was just more efficient.

    Intinction never became established in the West, and the Latin Rite's need for it in any case disappeared when it ceased giving the elements in both kinds to the laity. It was not resurrected until Vatican II, when communion in both kinds was made available at the bishop's option. My understanding is that few bishops in the U.S. have allowed it. (Eastern Catholic churches — which follow the Byzantine Rite but are in communion with the pope — retained the Eastern method of intinction and still follow it.)
     
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  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Interesting. Thank you so much for explaining this. :Thumbsup
     
  16. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    What an absolutely foolish retort. You are dissing the Holy Spirit here, so I would be careful if I were you. Without his blood shed on Calvary there would be no Holy Communion and that is what we who follow orthodox Christian teachings believe.
     
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  17. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    The Christian way does not consist of believing or doing but one thing. The Scriptures tell us that we must also be baptised to receive salvation, do they not? First comes the belief that Jesus shed his blood for us (having faith) then the rest of the scriptural exhortations and commands of what must be done follows.
     
  18. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Have you considered the thief on the cross?

    Luk 23:40 KJV - But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
    Luk 23:41 KJV - And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
    Luk 23:42 KJV - And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
    Luk 23:43 KJV - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
     
  19. RCommando

    RCommando Member

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    "let us evaluate the whole text, then i will tell you what i think it means, as opposed to what the Church and all Christians have believed since Christ's ascension."

    "symbolic" Communion is a novelty that first appeared in the 1600's and really isn't any type of communion at all. The Pastor elevated himself in place of the Risen Lord in the Eucharist.
     
  20. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    "...as opposed to what the Church and all Christians have believed since Christ's ascension...". It sounds like you have knowledge that would be of great benefit to me. Hopefully, you will share your insight whether or not Austin C agrees to evaluate the whole text.
     
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