Is Alistair Begg Right?

[Christina1]

[1] Don't ever say "There's a Bible verse somewhere..." if you don't know what you are talking about. Can you show the verse? Can you explain how it excuses sin?

You are equivocating. Sin is sin. So think spending eternity in hell is not hurting someone?

Romans 7:1-6

This still isn't the verse I'm thinking of but it's kind of the same idea.

It's the spirit that matters more than the law.

 

[tyndale1946]

We're not under the law anymore though. I really wish I could remember where that verse is from.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Brother Glen

 

[Christina1]

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Brother Glen

That's not the one I'm thinking of. It's in the letters somewhere.

 

[canadyjd]

…
Yeah, I think God has bigger fish to fry. Like rapists and murderers. A gay couple isn't really hurting anybody in the grand scheme of things..

I’m not trying to gang up on you. Please allow me to explain why “they aren't really hurting” anyone is untrue.

1. Marriage (one man and one woman) is the very first institution created by God in the garden. Some see the marriage relationship as reflective of the relationship within the Godhead (He created them in His image… male and female He crested them) Not that God is male and/or female, but God is about relationships. There is unity within the Godhead. At marriage, the man and woman become “one flesh”. That is not true of same s:x couples.

2. The marriage relationship reflects the relationship between Christ and His Church. We are “the Bride of Christ”.

3. The marriage relationship has been primary focus of Satan in corrupting God’s people. Fornication, adultery, divorce, him:sexuality, pornography and all manner of se:ual perversion have corrupted God’s creation from the beginning.

4. Scripture clearly describes same s:x relationships as “unnatural” and an “abomination” before God.

The passage you are looking for is Romans 1. Please pay particular attention to verses 26+. Not only do they know they will suffer the judgement of God who do these things but give hearty approval to those involved.

Please…. Do not be someone that gives hearty approval to sinful activity. You are doing these folks no favors by supporting them and are, in fact, giving the enemies of God great occasion to blaspheme His name.

peace to you

 

[Silverhair]

We're not under the law anymore though. I really wish I could remember where that verse is from.

If one is not under faith then one is under law. Not the law of the Jews but God's law.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Those that are living in open sin have refused the salvation of Christ Jesus so will be judged under the law of God.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why must you believe that? I think thats a bit far. He gave bad advice and thats not good. No where does he support what you're saying.

Give it time to rear it’s ugly head

 

[tyndale1946]

Give it time to rear it’s ugly head

I heard interesting counsel from a preacher back in the day... He said one time a member approached him and told him about a friend of his who had a different lifestyle... He told the preacher, it is my Christian duty to change him, I'm strong in the Christian faith!... The preacher said... Well that maybe but remember... Unless the Lord is in the matter... HE MAY CHANGE YOU!... Don't play with fire, you may get burned!... Brother Glen

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And btw... He never did!

 

[MrW]

Shepherds Conference speaker, Alistair Begg, says Christians should attend ‘gay weddings’ to not be ‘judgmental, critical’

Shepherds Conference speaker, Alistair Begg, says Christians should attend 'gay weddings' to not be 'judgmental, critical' | Christian News Network

Begg is totally wrong on this, and should retract these unbiblical and unwise comments

Should Christian attending these "gay weddings", also drink the toast to the "couple", eat the wedding cake, join in with the "celebrations"?

Will Begg say next that it is ok for a born-again, Evangelical pastor to marry theses "couples"?

I would be interested in your comments

Begg is absolutely 100% totally wrong. We cannot accept, approve, embrace or endorse what God has condemned.

And men cannot marry men, and women cannot marry women. God invented marriage, and He said, “For this cause, shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh, and what God has joined together, let not man put asunder”.

So it’s a farce! No, Christian should be at an event, celebrating rebellion against God, and perversion, unless they are there to preach to them that they are sending and need to repent and turn to God.

I will never listen to Begg again.

 

[MrW]

Thanks. do you not have anything to say about what Begg says here?

I have something to say. Begg is wrong.

 

[MrW]

Ignoring Christina henceforth. It is wrong to approve, accept, embrace, or endorse what God has condemned.

You should read what Piper said about it. He has it right.

 

[Christina1]

Ignoring Christina henceforth. It is wrong to approve, accept, embrace, or endorse what God has condemned.

You should read what Piper said about it. He has it right.

I never advocated approval, acceptance, or endorsement. I would never force you to do something against your conscience.
What point is there in participating in these conversations if my words are always going to be twisted and if my position is always going to be misrepresented?
There's no point in talking to you people!

 

[canadyjd]

I never advocated approval, acceptance, or endorsement. I would never force you to do something against your conscience.
What point is there in participating in these conversations if my words are always going to be twisted and if my position is always going to be misrepresented?
There's no point in talking to you people!

Perhaps I misunderstood your position. You said “God understands gay weddings”. Is that saying God doesn’t really care about gay weddings? Is that saying God supports gay marriage? The argument I have heard is that God is Love and since these folks love each other God approves. Is that what you are saying?

You said, “God has bigger fish to fry” and “in the grand scheme of things” you don’t think God really cares about gay relationships? Is that what you are saying?

Jesus said God knows the number of hairs on your head and a sparrow doesn’t fall to the ground without His knowledge. God is big enough to care about everything, all at once, without exception.

I am certain you feel like you are being ganged up on here. That is unfortunate.

You have taken a controversial, anti-biblical position (at least most folks here would think so) and you should expect folks to express strong opinions. Heck, folks voice strong opinions on things that really do not matter in the grand scheme of things (this isn’t one of those things)

I hope you stick around and continue the discussion.

peace to you

 

[Christina1]

Perhaps I misunderstood your position. You said “God understands gay weddings”. Is that saying God doesn’t really care about gay weddings? Is that saying God supports gay marriage? The argument I have heard is that God is Love and since these folks love each other God approves. Is that what you are saying?

You said, “God has bigger fish to fry” and “in the grand scheme of things” you don’t think God really cares about gay relationships? Is that what you are saying?

Jesus said God knows the number of hairs on your head and a sparrow doesn’t fall to the ground without His knowledge. God is big enough to care about everything, all at once, without exception.

I am certain you feel like you are being ganged up on here. That is unfortunate.

You have taken a controversial, anti-biblical position (at least most folks here would think so) and you should expect folks to express strong opinions. Heck, folks voice strong opinions on things that really do not matter in the grand scheme of things (this isn’t one of those things)

I hope you stick around and continue the discussion.

peace to you

My position is that connection is a higher priority for me than telling someone else how to live their life. Maybe what I should have said is God understands our feelings, motivations, intentions, and thoughts even more than we know ourselves.

I admit this is a little bit personal for me because I'm dealing with a current family estrangement situation in my personal life (It has nothing to do with this issue, I was told it was over a vaccine). I'm just saying be with your family while you can because you never know when you won't see them again. Be a light in a dark world.

I'm not saying go against your conscience. I'm not saying embrace, accept, or approve of something that you fundamentally disagree with. I'm saying embrace the fact that you disagree with your family member and in the spirit of love, respect, and tolerance, go to the wedding and build bridges with the family member. You don't have to agree with them.

If God wants them to change their lifestyle he will find a way to inspire that change. I don't think it's our place to try to make them change by excluding them. That's just cruel.

 

[Silverhair]

We're not under the law anymore though. I really wish I could remember where that verse is from.

Christians are not under the law. Jews that reject their Messiah are under the law. Gentiles that reject the Lord Jesus Christ will be judged by the law of God. Those that sin shall die.

 

[canadyjd]

My position is that connection is a higher priority for me than telling someone else how to live their life. Maybe what I should have said is God understands our feelings, motivations, intentions, and thoughts even more than we know ourselves.

I admit this is a little bit personal for me because I'm dealing with a current family estrangement situation in my personal life (It has nothing to do with this issue, I was told it was over a vaccine). I'm just saying be with your family while you can because you never know when you won't see them again. Be a light in a dark world.

I'm not saying go against your conscience. I'm not saying embrace, accept, or approve of something that you fundamentally disagree with. I'm saying embrace the fact that you disagree with your family member and in the spirit of love, respect, and tolerance, go to the wedding and build bridges with the family member. You don't have to agree with them.

If God wants them to change their lifestyle he will find a way to inspire that change. I don't think it's our place to try to make them change by excluding them. That's just cruel.

Thank you for clarifying. You really didn’t answer the questions about what you believe concerning whether God approves or not, but that is OK. I understand your point.

You are saying if a family member has a same s:x wedding, you should go to show them you love them no matter what. I understand that. You want to show unconditional love. You believe that is an appropriate Christian attitude.

As you stated, that is a matter of conscience for everyone involved.

I suppose the counter position is that by going, you are supporting the g:y marriage (whether simply by appearance or in reality) which many believe would bring harm to the cause of Christ in the world.

Thank you for sticking around to continue the discussion and explaining your position more thoroughly. I appreciate that.

I pray God reconcile whatever issues you are having with your family.

peace to you

 

[Christina1]

Thank you for clarifying. You really didn’t answer the questions about what you believe concerning whether God approves or not, but that is OK. I understand your point.

You are saying if a family member has a same s:x wedding, you should go to show them you love them no matter what. I understand that. You want to show unconditional love. You believe that is an appropriate Christian attitude.

As you stated, that is a matter of conscience for everyone involved.

I suppose the counter position is that by going, you are supporting the g:y marriage (whether simply by appearance or in reality) which many believe would bring harm to the cause of Christ in the world.

Thank you for sticking around to continue the discussion and explaining your position more thoroughly. I appreciate that.

I pray God reconcile whatever issues you are having with your family.

peace to you

Thank you for the prayers.

I'm fine with people taking the counter position. We disagree and that's cool. It's all good to have differing positions.

I just don't appreciate having my words twisted. You didn't do any such thing, by the way. There were others in the thread who did.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I heard interesting counsel from a preacher back in the day... He said one time a member approached him and told him about a friend of his who had a different lifestyle... He told the preacher, it is my Christian duty to change him, I'm strong in the Christian faith!... The preacher said... Well that maybe but remember... Unless the Lord is in the matter... HE MAY CHANGE YOU!... Don't play with fire, you may get burned!... Brother Glen

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And btw... He never did!

Life has a way of crashing down on you. The devil always insists that we compromise our faith and beliefs. Im reminded how he attempted to trick the Lord in the desert and told Jesus that he (the devil) would give Jesus everything if only Jesus would bow down to him the devil. Imagine that the devil attempting to tempt Jesus our Lord & Savior… a simple compromise would be all it takes. So why not compromise, why not go and support a gay lifestyle. Why not make life easier for everyone and bow down and I the devil will reward you. So simple, so so simple. But hear me the Lord says, “thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.” What recourse does the devil have when confronted with God the supreme master of the universe?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Ignoring Christina henceforth. It is wrong to approve, accept, embrace, or endorse what God has condemned.

You should read what Piper said about it. He has it right.

Temptation to conform is always the easier path right? I don’t know if Begg wasn’t himself put into a compromising situation by this grandma's concerns but he gave her improper advise! Contrast that to John Pipers answer to the question.

 

[tyndale1946]

I was thinking this that has not be brought up as far as I know so I will... I have known many preachers in my life and I ask you can talk the talk but can you walk the walk?... IOW... You have a higher position among the members, you are an example to the flock... I heard the counsel Alistair Begg gave to the grandmother, not to be judgemental or critical but to attend the ceremony and buy them a gift... I would say to him if you are not judgemental or critical, officiate the ceremony where these two same sex couples are joined, or officiate one in the future... As the old saying goes... Actions speaks louder than words... Brother Glen

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I was thinking this that has not be brought up as far as I know so I will... I have known many preachers in my life and I ask you can talk the talk but can you walk the walk?... IOW... You have a higher position among the members, you are an example to the flock... I heard the counsel Alistair Begg gave to the grandmother, not to be judgemental or critical but to attend the ceremony and buy them a gift... I would say to him if you are not judgemental or critical, officiate the ceremony where these two same sex couples are joined, or officiate one in the future... As the old saying goes... Actions speaks louder than words... Brother Glen

Capital idea … then he should buy some tickets back to Glasgow where he comes from…or send him to California as a council to Gavin, he would fit right in.