Is Calvinism's "Total Inability" and Biblical Hardening Compatible?

Yea Winman! You either play by Luke's rules or he will punish you. He will ignore you!

I guess this is easier for him to do this rather than admit he has no answer for the verses you posted.

 

Actually Luke2427's reply to winman is correct, winmans pasted verses don't prove a thing, as usual.

 

Alright, suppose I agree with your order and process. (I don't, but that is another argument). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for this argument.

What is the minimum and maximum time limit for this to take place.
For example, it seems that the people on the Day of Pentecost heard the Word on that day, were convicted on that day and were saved on that day--all during the space of the time it took Peter to preach one sermon. Agreed?

But with Cornelius was the time much greater, and also Lydia?

Can regeneration take place as long as a month before salvation?

What is the maximum time length for this process to occur?

 

I don't have to guess. I put his very words up for you and the whole world to see.

He said exactly, not evenjust similarly, listen to it... E X A C T L Y what I said about it.

This is the fact that you will not face.

I quoted Ware's own words numerous times saying, listen to it again and see if you can get it this time

E X A C T L Y

what I said.

Those E X A C T same words are the ones that you claimed were outside the mainstream.

As I have said repeatedly, I don't agree with Ware about everything. But oddly enough I disagree with him concerning those points on which HE is outside the mainstream of Calvinism.

This does not help your case.

But on compatabalism, a point in which he is most certainly NOT outside the mainstream- he and I are of one mind.

In fact we say the... wait for it...

E X A C T

same WORDS concerning the matter.

Yes.

Most ASSUREDLY.

This is none other than Augustine's position. It is the oldest known Christian theodicy.

Once again E X A C T L Y as Bruce Ware said it.

So, yes, you are steadily proving that you are not as educated on Calvinism as you want people to think.

Yes, but not by bare permission but by- now watch this- what's coming next is the very thing that causes you to tuck your tail and run and deflect like crazy-

by permission but not by JUST bare permission but by his own divine- here it is- PURPOSES.

God permits it and- listen to it now and you will learn something about mainstream historic Calvinism- PURPOSES IT.

Yes.

Yes, and this is your problem.

This confusion is the very REASON you are an Arminian.

 

There is no biblical time set.

We know that it can take QUITE a while.

One plants and by and by- could be years later, another waters- and by and by- could be YEARS later- God gives the increase.

This is a process.

God can do it in a flash or God can do it over a period of years.

Your Acts 2 passage does not work because these people had the Word of God and it was for THIS VERY REASON that they were AT PENTECOST- TO WORSHIP.

These people could have been awakened spiritually LONG before they heard the words of Peter whereby they were saved.

You don't know, and I don't know.

 

Did YOU of all people just complain about someone being an over zealous post policeman?????????????????????????????????????

Talk about the pot and the kettle !!!!

You are the most reprimanding person in the history of BAPTISTBOARD!

Do you even HAVE a mirror in your life???

 

It's my position that regeneration and salvation must take place at the same time. In your process the working of the Holy Spirit and the hearing of the Word of God can take place for years before that. But if regeneration doesn't take place at the same time one runs into theological problems. What happens if the person dies between being regenerated and salvation?

 

If such a thing were possible, he would go to hell.

Whether or not such a thing is possible is a debate for another topic.

Regardless, surely you cannot deny that often it is the case that one plants and another waters, etc... and that this is a PROCESS.

 

To my knowledge the Calvinist says that regeneration = new birth.
How can a person who is born again go to hell?
How can someone who has been regenerated go to hell?
As I said the two processes must take place simultaneously.

 

They can't if being "born again" means what you think it means.

You think it IS salvation- it is the whole of it. You base this on a viewpoint that is very new so far as church history is concerned but old enough for you to have been raised hearing it. So you cannot see being "born again" as anything other than the WHOLE of salvation.

Until you are willing to personally submit that idea to scrutiny you will not see it.

But, btw, no one is saying that a born again person CAN go to hell. If God regenerates a person to the point of the new birth then God finishes that work and saves them eternally. During that time period there is no force in earth or hell that could kill this person. God has determined to save them and they cannot die until God has saved them.

 

This was the answer I was anticipating from the beginning.
It would fit in more with the doctrine of election.

 

I have never seen someone who deflects as much as you do.

The fact of the matter is that six months ago I said, "God DID IT".

You said that's outside the mainstream.

I proved it is not.

You lose. Whether you are too prideful to admit that or not is irrelevant.

Facts are facts.

Yes, I do know what Molinistic Middle Knowledge is.

And if I was totally IGNORANT on the matter I would STILL know more about than you know about Calvinism.

Something you keep making clear over and over again.

"infantile?"

Do you not think that is insulting? I don't care, mind you, but you forfeit your right ethically to be Mister BB policeman when you are snotty and insulting and breaking the same rules you burden others with.

His molinism has nothing to do with the fact that he is a thorough compatabilist.

This is your problem Skandelon.

I bet in your mind you have NEVER lost a debate in your whole life.

Not on anything that matters at all to you.

And I'll tell you why I say that. You can take EXTRAORDINARILY CLEAR words that refute your position. like the words of Ware and Edwards and spin them, only to your own satisfaction, to sound like they support YOU.

But the only ones you are fooling are the blind few and yourself.

NOBODY with half a brain could watch that clip of Ware and say that his view is different from mine on compatabilism.

Yet you do. But for you, it is not that you don't have half a brain- it is that you subconsciously cannot bear to lose or think that your position has been decimated.

But it has. Denial may help you deal with it- but it doesn't change the facts about it.

But what you lack the courage to do is admit the reverse- that God purposes all the evil that ever exists to exist.

What you lack the courage to confirm is that God purposes that men not get saved and that those men go to hell.

You are in a catch 22 on this matter.

You know on the one hand that if you say that God did not purpose for billions to be saved and that God did NOT purpose that they go to hell- then you undermine the eternal purposes of God and purport that God's eternal purposes can be thwarted.

On the other hand, you know if you admit that God purposes that men not get saved and that those men go to hell then you will reveal to those without a theology that you are DIAMETRICALLY opposed to their way of thinking.

You don't want to face the isolation so you deflect. It is what you do the most of anyone I have ever seen.

 

I find you incorrigible and this comment infantile.

And that's just what I have seen you use in the last five minutes.

And the worst I have EVER seen is your dishonest brackets.

That was the most dishonest thing I have seen on bb- ever.

So I think, once again, the best investment you could make at this point in your life is a mirror- or maybe a beam remover for your own eye.

If you want us not to be personal- then lead the way.

 

No need for your pejoratives. You get quite personal and seem angry often.

Also, its not true that that was all I could produce. You produce enough on yourself. And unlike yourself I don't follow you around and dogg yours steps with all of them.

Always bringing up the past, slandering me again Skan? Who is that akin to?

 

Amen.

Amazing how he attempts to contrue himself differently in his own mind, all the while slandering me, with his personal attacks, while calling it a joke?

Like a madman who throws Firebrands, arrows and death, So is the man who deceives his neighbor, And says, "Was I not joking?" Proverbs 26:18-19