Is faith a work?

Me2, You can't get away with that you fraud! Your underhanded attempts to slur those who have the truth of scripture to support them are not easily put down by those who deliberatly missuse and missinterpret scripture as you do ceaselessly.

If anyone is attempting to steal anything from God is it you!

 

God does.

 

Thanks for beautifully illustrating my point. The Bible explicitly says that it is the Holy Spirit. Also, Christ said the Father draws (helkuo=to drag). Why do many, who hear the Word of God, do not accept Christ as Saviour?

It seems that I think what you've been all over has certain deficiencies and is totally inadequate. BTW, the way you use the word fact is inaccurate since you have not established what you call fact as fact. The matter is obviously still under debate. Think before you rebuke.

 

paidagogos,

The reason for debate, my friend, is that many men do not accept "the fact" and place their faith in, or rely on the Word of God for their faith! They think there just has to be "something more".

God made man so that Man can "HEAR the WORD OF GOD" and come to FAITH in God, and through that FAITH have SALVATION. The Christ's Atonement of ALL sins for ALL times, enables man's SALVATION through FAITH by removing the penalty for sin from mankind.

God made it so simple as to confound "the wise", while it is the very "bread of LIFE" to the meek and lowly.

 

While professing to believe Scripture, you are persistently ignoring Scripture. Don't give your opinion--refute my exegesis. Say that it ain't so using the verses that I offered in previous posts. Don't ignore them and pontificate. You are doing exactly the thing of which you are accusing others--i.e. not taking their doctrine from Scripture.

 

The Scriptures that support my beliefs regarding:

ATONEMENT = ALL SINs -- ALL TIMES Its Affect = Removed the penalty for sin from man!

SALVATION = ENABLED BY ATONEMENT, BUT THROUGH FAITH ALONE, The gift of God to man!

FAITH = REQUIRED OF MAN in order to receive SALVATION. If reguired of man, it is not given to man!

[Heb 7:27] he has no need to offer sacrifices every day, as the high priests do, first for their own sins and only then for those of the people; this he did once and for all by offering himself.

[Heb 9:14] How much more will the blood of Christ, who offered himself, blameless as he was, to God through the eternal Spirit, purify our conscience from dead actions so that we can worship the living God.

Christ seals the new covenant with his blood
[Heb 9:15-28] This (verses 1-14) makes him the mediator of a new covenant, so that, now that a death has occurred to redeem the sins committed under an earlier covenant, those who have been called to an eternal inheritance may receive the promise. Now wherever a will is in question, the death of the testator must be established; a testament comes into effect only after a death, since it has no force while the testator is still alive. That is why even the earlier covenant was inaugurated with blood, and why, after Moses had promulgated all the commandments of the Law to the people, he took the calves' blood, the goats' blood and some water, and with these he sprinkled the book itself and all the people, using scarlet wool and hyssop; saying as he did so: This is the blood of the covenant that God has made with you. And he sprinkled both the tent and all the liturgical vessels with blood in the same way.

In fact, according to the Law, practically every purification takes place by means of blood; and if there is no shedding of blood, there is no remission. Only the copies of heavenly things are purified in this way; the heavenly things themselves have to be purified by a higher sort of sacrifice than this.

It is not as though Christ had entered a man-made sanctuary which was merely a model of the real one; he entered heaven itself, so that he now appears in the presence of God on our behalf.

And he does not have to offer himself again and again, as the high priest goes into the sanctuary year after year with the blood that is not his own, or else he would have had to suffer over and over again since the world began. As it is, he has made his appearance once and for all, at the end of the last age, to do away with sin by sacrificing himself.

Since human beings die only once, after which comes judgement, so Christ too, having offered himself only once to bear the sin of many, will manifest himself a second time, sin being no more, to those who are waiting for him, to bring them salvation.

SUMMARY: CHRIST'S SACRIFICE SUPERIOR TO THE SACRIFICES OF THE MOSAIC LAW

The old sacrifices ineffective
[Heb 10:9,10] and then he says: Here I am! I am coming to do your will. He is abolishing the first sort to establish the second. And this will was for us to be made holy by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ made once and for all.

The Law did not cancel the promise
[1 Tim 2:6,7] who offered himself as a ransom for all. This was the witness given at the appointed time, of which I was appointed herald and apostle and I am telling the truth and no lie-a teacher of the gentiles in faith and truth.

[Gal 3:13,14] Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law (death for sin) by being cursed for our sake since scripture says: Anyone hanged is accursed, so that the blessing of Abraham might (FAITH) come to the gentiles in Christ Jesus, and so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

The efficacy of Christ's sacrifice
[1 Pet 3:18-21] Christ himself died once and for all for sins, the upright for the sake of the guilty, to lead us to God. In the body he was put to death, in the spirit he was raised to life, and, in the spirit, he went to preach to the spirits in prison. They refused to believe long ago, while God patiently waited to receive them, in Noah's time when the ark was being built. In it only a few, that is eight souls, were saved through water. It is the baptism corresponding to this water which saves you now-not the washing off of physical dirt but the pledge of a good conscience given to God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

[Rev 5:9,10] They sang a new hymn: You are worthy to take the scroll and to break its seals, because you were sacrificed, and with your blood you bought people for God of every race, language, people and nation and made them a line of kings and priests for God, to rule the world.

 

Yelsew,

On an earlier post, you instructed me not to take Paul all too seriously. I look at you as a brother in the church of Christ, but after your comments about my use of Pauline theology, I don't know how I can take any of your arguments seriously.

 

"There is a third, and that is caused by introspection while in a depressed state of mind. When one is depressed, for whatever reason, one is not thinking clealy or rationally. Paul was a mere mortal just like all the rest of us. As we have our ups and downs, Paul had his. You can see that throughout his writings. When in prison, or some other oppressive situation, Paul is much harder on himself than when he is free and doing what he loves to do...Just like us! So don't take everything Paul wrote so literally! When you do, you come to wrong conclusions! No one stays at the top of their game all the time."


I'm sorry, Yelsew, but you said literally, not seriously. But the jist is the same. If this is truly representative of your hermenuetic scope on anything Pauline, then discussing doctrine with you is a mute point.

 

BBNEWTON, How can the jist be the same? I cannot remember once ever saying not to take the writings of Paul seriously, but Even Peter speaks of some of Paul's writings as "difficult" to understand, and that is why I recommend that you not take some of Paul's writings literally.

Here's the difference.

 

You still didn't even address, much less refute, my exegesis!

 

</font>[/QUOTE]You're messed up! Adieu.

 

Another drive by shooter?

 

Yelsew,

If I misread you, I apologize. Your statements about Pauline interpretation startled me. But maybe this is a misunderstanding; how do you interpret him, how do you know when he is depressed? Come to think of it, Paul probably had regular flashbacks of the Christians he persecuted. This could put him in an unsettled state of mind. Should we throw out the Epistles?

 

"There is a third, and that is caused by introspection while in a depressed state of mind. When one is depressed, for whatever reason, one is not thinking clealy or rationally. Paul was a mere mortal just like all the rest of us. As we have our ups and downs, Paul had his. You can see that throughout his writings. When in prison, or some other oppressive situation, Paul is much harder on himself than when he is free and doing what he loves to do...Just like us! So don't take everything Paul wrote so literally! When you do, you come to wrong conclusions! No one stays at the top of their game all the time."


Come on Yelsew, who taught you this or did you come up with it one your own?

 

Don't be rediculous BB, Paul is the greatest teacher of the Christian lifestyle. He teaches us how to live our FAITH! But just like us he had his peaks and valleys. HE WAS MAN, 100% MAN! There was no part of him that was deity!

 

I'll say it again! Paul was 100% human, ALL MAN! NO DEITY! Yet he is the greatest teacher of Christian Lifestyle, and is therefore trustworthy. But don't take everything he says as literally as you do, for he often used illustrations to teach.

Did you take 100% of you seminary Professor's teachings to heart? If you did you are highly unusual, and probably not worth listening to if you are a preacher.

 

Is Calvinism a work? Is Arminianism a work?

 

O come on Yelsew, can a seminary professor declare eternal hellfire (Gal. 1:9) on anyone that doesn't preach his gospel?

You stated:

"I'll say it again! Paul was 100% human, ALL MAN! NO DEITY! Yet he is the greatest teacher of Christian Lifestyle, and is therefore trustworthy. But don't take everything he says as literally as you do, for he often used illustrations to teach."


So what part of the Pauline epistles shouldn't be considered the perfect word of God? The parts that don't fit your theological paradigm (and that of the Pope and Pelagius)?

 

I will not enter that debate with you, I have not said that Paul's letters are not to be considered as part of the Word of God, but that one should not take everything therein LITERALLY!

Paul teaches, your seminary professor teaches, there is very little difference in them regarding teaching. Just as your professor uses figurative speech to get the message across, Paul uses figurative speech to get the message across. If you take the figurative speech literally, you will miss the message! capeeeeesh?

 

Yelsew,

Yeah, but you made your statements about interpreting Paul after I posted:

"I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature" --Romans 7

You apparently believe Paul made this statement because he was depressed and therefore shouldn't be taken too literally. Could you please explain to me how I am to take this figuratively?