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Featured Is God Insincere in His Gospel Message?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Active Member

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    Mark 16:15

    “And He (Jesus) said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation

    This is a command by the Lord Jesus Christ, that is to take the Gospel Message to “all creation”, which is the entire human race. Matthew 28:19-20; Luke 24:46-48; Acts 1:8, say the same thing;

    “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

    “and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.”

    “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

    It is believed by the majority of Christians, that the Gospel Message is to be taken to every nation in the world, and shared with every human being. What exactly is this Gospel Message, or, rather, Good News, that we are commanded by the Lord Himself, to share with all humans? According to the Apostle Paul, he says that Good News is;

    “Now I would remind you, brothers, of the Gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

    If, as some argue, that this Good News, that “Christ died for our sins”, is only really meant for the “elect”, whom God has already chosen for salvation, even before the world began, and whose salvation is a sure thing; then for what purpose, exactly, is it to share this Good News, that “Christ died for our sins”, to those who can never be included in this, as they are not part of this “elect” of God? Surely God, Who is Almighty, and can do all things, as we know He can, can direct His Good News to those who are His elect, and not have it shared with the “non-elect”? This cannot be difficult for the God Who has created all things? If God did tell Ananias in Acts chapter 9, to go to Paul and tell him the Good News for his salvation; and in chapter 10, to Peter, to share this Good News with Cornelius, that he and his family and close friends, could hear this Message for the salvation of their souls. Then, it is not even a difficult thing that the Great God of the Holy Bible, can indeed have this Good News of salvation for lost sinners, taken only to those He wants to be saved, which is His “elect”, as some would have us believe. In Acts 16 we read of Paul wanting to preach the Gospel is Asia, and the Holy Spirit stops him doing so. Then Paul has a dream that the people in Macedonia were calling him to help them, Paul concludes that God wanted him to take the Gospel there, so he went. Again, this clearly shows that the Lord is very much able to have the Gospel Message preached to certain people.

    If the preaching of the Good News of sins forgiven, and salvation in Jesus Christ, is to be proclaimed to every human being, then it must follow, that God has made provision for the sins of all human beings, in the Death of Jesus Christ; otherwise it is no more than a sham, and insincere preaching to those who can never be saved, because they do not belong to this “elect” people!

    I have a book on theology, by Loraine Boettner, who was a Reformed theologian. In this he says:

    "The Gospel is, nevertheless, to be offered to all men, with the assurance that it is exactly adapted to the needs of all men, and that God has decreed that all who place their faith in Christ shall be saved by Him. No man is lost because of any deficiency in the objective atonement, or because God has placed any barrier in His way, but only because of subjective difficulties, specifically, because because of his own evil disposition and his freely exercised wicked will will prevent his believing and accepting that atonement" (Studies in Theology, pages 323-324)

    Now, has God decreed the "ALL" who place their faith in Jesus, as "elect", or "all without exception"? If the former, then Dr Boettner's argument is faulty. Then he goes on to say, that "no man is lost", because of God "placing any barrier in his way", which again can only refer to the "non-elect", but, this reasoning is faulty, as the "barrier" that God has placed, according to Calvinism, is that the Death of Jesus Christ and His shed blood, is not for the sins of the “non-elect”. IF, as this teaches, that Jesus Christ ONLY died for SOME, then this DOES become a "barrier" to those for whom He did not die. Dr Boettner, then accuses the person who does not accept Jesus, of having a "evil disposition" and "freely exercised wicked will", which again contradicts "Calvinism", which teaches that man does NOT have a "free will", to accept or reject the Gospel of Salvation, as their "fate" has already been predetermined by the Lord! This contradicts what the Bible says, and is no more than man-made “theology”.

    Either Jesus Christ is very sincere in what He says, that we are to take the Good News Message to every human being, and that this is because He has “provided” for their salvation, IF they “repent and believe in the Good News” (Mark 1:15). Or, Jesus' Word are no more than empty and are not sincere at all, which is an impossibility! The preaching of the Gospel Message, that “Christ died for our sins”, means exactly that, the sins of the entire world are included in His Death on the cross, and only becomes “effective” when the sinner “repents and believes”. THIS is the True Good News Message for the entire human race, and NOT limited in any way to just the “elect” few, which some have perverted the Bible to say!
     
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  2. Scripture More Accurately

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    Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

    Although this verse was addressed to OT Israelites concerning comprehensively obeying the Law, the principle of comprehensive obedience to all that we know that God has commanded us applies to all believers.

    As NT believers, recognizing that there are secret things that God has reserved for Himself, we are to obey God's commands to evangelize all people regardless of whatever else we believe about the extent of the atonement, election, etc.
     
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Active Member

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    God will not have the Gospel preached to all the human race, if He did not make provision for them in the Death of Jesus
     
  4. Scripture More Accurately

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    I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing about whether He has made provision for all through Christ's death. I am affirming that He has called us to evangelize on a universal level.
     
    #4 Scripture More Accurately, Oct 13, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Active Member

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    indeed :Thumbsup
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    yes, we give the Gospel message out to all, as the Lord has ordained that message is what he will have the Holy Spirit use to bring in His chosen in Christ!
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Active Member

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    why, can't the Lord direct the Gospel of salvation to the "elect", as He did for Paul and Cornelius? Is God limited as to how He does things?
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We do not know who those are, so we are commanded to give it out to all!
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    was God required to make a provision for all lost sinners then?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    agreed
     
  11. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Christ died for whosoever believes.
    Unless you have perfected a test to know in advance which person will never believe, then how can you tell them that Christ did not die for them? If you do have such a test, why are you wasting time preaching the Gospel to people that you already know will never choose to believe? Are there not enough people that are willing to believe that you should be spending the time discipling?

    Everyone that I know scatters the seed widely because only God knows which hearts have the good soil that He has prepared. However, whosoever believes ... Jesus died for them and that makes them "the elect".

    [John 3:16-21 NASB] 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Think someone asked Spurgeon why he preaches Jesus to all, and his reply was basically God did not paint on the backs of his elect, so does not know who they might be!
     
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  13. Scripture More Accurately

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    The Scripture does not support the position that the Lord only directs the gospel to the elect. Paul preached the gospel to a group of people in Athens and some rejected the message, some said that they want to hear more, and others believed:

    Acts 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter. 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

    Other passages also show the same thing.
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Active Member

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    the point that I am making is that the Lord is able to direct the Gospel to the elect only, if they were the only ones to be saved. There is no need for the others to even hear it, because they can never be saved.
     
  15. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    You do make an interesting point. God could make us desire to seek out and find Believers or orchestrate events so that we come in contact with Christian materials at just the right time. I myself show that God could and would do unimaginable things to pursue one soul with my testimony.

    I prayed for a hurricane to strike my city on my birthday on a whim to test God's existence, I prayed to have two more striked soon after in faithlessness. I was obstinate and evil for years regardless, building up wrath against myself until God called me to repentance by conversing with me and leaving me a set of miracles to know what happened.
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Active Member

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    Indeed, God is very able to seek out the elect only, if they are the only that He wants to save. But, praise Him that they are NOT, and He desires the entire world to get saved.
     
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  17. Scripture More Accurately

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    Does the Scripture reveal that there is only one consideration for why every human needs to hear the gospel?
     
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  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Reason #2:
    [John 3:18 NASB] 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    [John 9:39-41 NASB] 39 And Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind." 40 Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, "We are not blind too, are we?" 41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains.
    [Romans 1:20 NASB] 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
     
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    "the point that I am making is that the Lord is able to direct the Gospel to [those who will choose to believe] only, [since] they [are] the only ones to be saved. There is no need for the others to even hear it, because they [will never choose to] be saved."

    I have edited your statement to apply to the Free Will theology position instead of the Doctrines of Grace position.
    How is the statement any different?
    Your argument has nothing to do with ELECTION or the Doctrines of Grace.
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Active Member

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    you have missed what I am saying!
     
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