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Is hell eternal?
- Thread starter Boanerges
- Start date
Hope of Glory
New Member
Well,... ditto to Shiloh and JohnV.
Over the course of the last year or so, I have become convinced that hell is not eternal - I believe that the unrepentent are ultimately annihilated. I will not go on at length (at least for the present) but will give the following reasons:
1. I believe that scriptural, "philosophical", and historical considerations lead to the conclusion that man does not possess an immaterial "soul". This, in turn, has implications for how we read other biblical texts, texts that appear to suggest an eternal hell.
2. I believe that an examination of OT texts (and even an NT text or two), combined with historical knowledge, gives us reason to think that we cannot confer a "plain reading" interpretation on some texts that, again, suggest eternal torment.
3. I find the so-called moral argument against an eternal hell to be compelling - the idea that it is inconsistent with any sensible interpretation of the idea that God is loving.
I am not a 7th Day Adventist or a member of any particular sect - I will call myself a generic Protestant Christian.
1. I believe that scriptural, "philosophical", and historical considerations lead to the conclusion that man does not possess an immaterial "soul". This, in turn, has implications for how we read other biblical texts, texts that appear to suggest an eternal hell.
2. I believe that an examination of OT texts (and even an NT text or two), combined with historical knowledge, gives us reason to think that we cannot confer a "plain reading" interpretation on some texts that, again, suggest eternal torment.
3. I find the so-called moral argument against an eternal hell to be compelling - the idea that it is inconsistent with any sensible interpretation of the idea that God is loving.
I am not a 7th Day Adventist or a member of any particular sect - I will call myself a generic Protestant Christian.
I am afraid that you would lose that bet. Unless something dramatic happens in the next 2 hours (I have not voted yet), I intend to vote "Conservative".
I know that this "begs the question", but I think you might be surprised at how compelling the case for annihilation is - I used to be an ETer (believer in eternal torment), but have changed my mind.
Daniel 12
1 And at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of distress, such as has not been from the being of a nation until that time. And at that time, your people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the Book.
2 And many of those sleeping in the earth's dust shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and to everlasting abhorrence.
Let's take a look at verse two in the Hebrew:
וְרַבִּים, מִיְּשֵׁנֵי אַדְמַת-עָפָר יָקִיצוּ; אֵלֶּה לְחַיֵּי עוֹלָם, וְאֵלֶּה
לַחֲרָפוֹת לְדִרְאוֹן עוֹלָם
Let me transliterate this:
W'rabiym miysheney admat- apar yaqiytsuw Eleh l'chayey owlam w'eleh lacharapowt l'dirown owlam
There are two key phrases in the Hebrew that need examining here. They are:
l'chayey owlam (the life everlasting)
l'dirown owlam (the shame/contempt/abhorrance everlasting)
The word owlam in Hebrew means eternal or everlasting in this context. Let's examine another passage where this occurs in the Hebrew:
Genesis 21
33 And he planted a tamarisk tree in Beer-sheba, and there he called *on the name of Jehovah the everlasting God*.
A quick look at the ending Hebrew in the sentence for “on the name of Jehovah the everlasting God” reveals:
b'Shem YHWH El olawm
As you can clearly see, we have the same word that means eternal or everlasting (owlam) being used to describe God Almighty.
So then, if hell isn't eternal, then neither is the after life, or God Almighty Himself using the same logic. In that case...
Houston...I think we have a problem.....
1 And at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great ruler who stands for the sons of your people. And there shall be a time of distress, such as has not been from the being of a nation until that time. And at that time, your people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the Book.
2 And many of those sleeping in the earth's dust shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproaches and to everlasting abhorrence.
Let's take a look at verse two in the Hebrew:
וְרַבִּים, מִיְּשֵׁנֵי אַדְמַת-עָפָר יָקִיצוּ; אֵלֶּה לְחַיֵּי עוֹלָם, וְאֵלֶּה
לַחֲרָפוֹת לְדִרְאוֹן עוֹלָם
Let me transliterate this:
W'rabiym miysheney admat- apar yaqiytsuw Eleh l'chayey owlam w'eleh lacharapowt l'dirown owlam
There are two key phrases in the Hebrew that need examining here. They are:
l'chayey owlam (the life everlasting)
l'dirown owlam (the shame/contempt/abhorrance everlasting)
The word owlam in Hebrew means eternal or everlasting in this context. Let's examine another passage where this occurs in the Hebrew:
Genesis 21
33 And he planted a tamarisk tree in Beer-sheba, and there he called *on the name of Jehovah the everlasting God*.
A quick look at the ending Hebrew in the sentence for “on the name of Jehovah the everlasting God” reveals:
b'Shem YHWH El olawm
As you can clearly see, we have the same word that means eternal or everlasting (owlam) being used to describe God Almighty.
So then, if hell isn't eternal, then neither is the after life, or God Almighty Himself using the same logic. In that case...
Houston...I think we have a problem.....
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Luke 16 The rich man died also and in hell lifted his eyes being in torment.
These were the words of our Lord and Savior Himself. I the soul were to be totally annhilated as suggested by Andre, why was the man tormented? Why was he able to talk, see, feel, hear, and I am sure smell as well.
No, annihilation is not possible, else there is no punishment for rejecting the gift of God's Son and eternal life.
If man can convince himself that hell is only a temporary state, then man will not feel the need to turn from sin. After all, 'why should I worry about hell? If I burn my finger here on earth, it eventually stops hurting, hell will eventually stop hurting me.'
No, my friend, the Bible says that hell is a place where 'their worm' dieth not and the fire is not quenched.
What is meant by 'their worm'? It is speaking of those who mocked God and rejected His Son. These will be tormented for all eternity.
Jesus did not say the rich man went to hell and was annhilated, no, He said the rich man lifted his eyes in torment.
Hell is real, and death and hell are cast into the lake of fire in Revelation so that death can be destroyed.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
KJV Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
KJV Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Once death and hell are cast in and destroyed, that is the second death. Then man cannot be destroyed, but eternal punishment for sin is inevitable.
These were the words of our Lord and Savior Himself. I the soul were to be totally annhilated as suggested by Andre, why was the man tormented? Why was he able to talk, see, feel, hear, and I am sure smell as well.
No, annihilation is not possible, else there is no punishment for rejecting the gift of God's Son and eternal life.
If man can convince himself that hell is only a temporary state, then man will not feel the need to turn from sin. After all, 'why should I worry about hell? If I burn my finger here on earth, it eventually stops hurting, hell will eventually stop hurting me.'
No, my friend, the Bible says that hell is a place where 'their worm' dieth not and the fire is not quenched.
What is meant by 'their worm'? It is speaking of those who mocked God and rejected His Son. These will be tormented for all eternity.
Jesus did not say the rich man went to hell and was annhilated, no, He said the rich man lifted his eyes in torment.
Hell is real, and death and hell are cast into the lake of fire in Revelation so that death can be destroyed.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
KJV Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
KJV Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Once death and hell are cast in and destroyed, that is the second death. Then man cannot be destroyed, but eternal punishment for sin is inevitable.
Hope of Glory
New Member
The word "owlam" in Hebrew does not mean eternal, nor does it mean everlasting. Eternal means without beginning or ending (only God is eternal) and everlasting means without ending. "Owlam" is a time of limited duration, which is supported by the use of the Greek word "aionion" in the LXX. Sadly, both have been translated as "eternal" (among other things), which creates much confusion.
standingfirminChrist
New Member
5769. `owlam
Search for H5769 in KJVSL
Mlwe `owlam o-lawm'
or lolam {o-lawm'}; from 5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always:--alway(-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, (n-))ever(-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare 5331, 5703.
See Hebrew 5956
See Hebrew 5331
See Hebrew 5703
Search for H5769 in KJVSL
Mlwe `owlam o-lawm'
or lolam {o-lawm'}; from 5956; properly, concealed, i.e. the vanishing point; generally, time out of mind (past or future), i.e. (practically) eternity; frequentatively, adverbial (especially with prepositional prefix) always:--alway(-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, (n-))ever(-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare 5331, 5703.
See Hebrew 5956
See Hebrew 5331
See Hebrew 5703
The word "owlam" in Hebrew does not mean eternal, nor does it mean everlasting. Eternal means without beginning or ending (only God is eternal) and everlasting means without ending. "Owlam" is a time of limited duration, which is supported by the use of the Greek word "aionion" in the LXX. Sadly, both have been translated as "eternal" (among other things), which creates much confusion. </font>[/QUOTE]So then, God is only a God of limited duration? What about the after life? hmmmmm
standingfirminChrist
New Member
Strange doctrine...
The creator of all things not eternal.
Very strange indeed.
The creator of all things not eternal.
Very strange indeed.
Quote:
The word "owlam" in Hebrew does not mean eternal, nor does it mean everlasting.
So when the Jews say the blessing at the Shabbat dinner that goes:
Baruch haba Adonay Elohenu, Melech ha Owlam, are they saying King of a limited duration?
I alway thought it was "Blessed are you Lord our God, the Eternal King...
oh well...
The word "owlam" in Hebrew does not mean eternal, nor does it mean everlasting.
So when the Jews say the blessing at the Shabbat dinner that goes:
Baruch haba Adonay Elohenu, Melech ha Owlam, are they saying King of a limited duration?
I alway thought it was "Blessed are you Lord our God, the Eternal King...
oh well...
standingfirminChrist
New Member
I am quite sure it is Eternal King, Boanerges. If it were not, we truly would have no hope, not even in God's Son.