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Featured is it Heresy to deny doctrine of original/Imputed Sin?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Agree with this also.
     
  2. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    The wonderful thing about Scripture is that it is balanced. Yes. Jesus Christ came to undo the effects of the first Adam, but that does mean the result is Universalism? The verse you are referring to (1 Cor. 15:21, 22) is Paul's teaching on the resurrection. Paul was writing to believers:

    [15:1]*Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, [2]*and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

    (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 ESV) (emphasis mine)

    So, when Paul wrote, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" he was writing about believers. Paul was not teaching that sinners will be made alive in Christ. Quite the contrary. Our Lord said:

    [24]*"I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
    (John 8:24 ESV)

    [6]*Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
    (John 14:6 ESV)

    How does a person come to Father through Christ? By faith.

    [5:1]*Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

    (Romans 5:1 ESV)

    [8]*For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
    (Ephesians 2:8 ESV)

    God does not "lower his standards" as you suggest. God's standard for eternal life has always been through faith in His Son. You either come to God through the Son, in the way Scripture prescribes, or you do not come at all.
     
    #22 Herald, Jan 24, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2013
  3. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski New Member

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    So you believe in universalism, that everyone is ultimately saved?
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Another non sequitur. Atoning for sin is not the same thing as salvation by grace through faith.
     
  5. Bronconagurski

    Bronconagurski New Member

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    I want to hear him say that, but thanks for your input. I understand that the atonement is effective enough to save everyone, but it is not applicable to everyone in that all are not saved. Hiswitness, to whom he was replying, believes all are saved because of what he said. So, begging your pardon, it is not another non sequitur.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus death in the bible termininology was a penal substitutionary kind of atonement, definite One, that paid for specific sins...

    His death sufficient to save ALL sinners, but was intended meant to save some only...

    Those denying Sin of the fall being imputed make his death either a general One, or would haveto have it Univeralism if carried to logical conclusion!

    It also begs the question of IF the Cross was a necessity, for IF we are not tainted win sin, why couldn't man live right enough to stay saved?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul taught it first!

    What, you meean the "heretics" Augustine/Calvin did not amke it up without any biblical support?
     
  8. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Yes it is heresy.


    The church settled that matter in the Augustinian/Arian controversy in the fourth and fifth centuries.
     
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Sure it is. It is a means to that end.
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    This whole Semi Pelagian thing is heretical.... You know that Yeshua.
     
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Since according to you He only died for some humans, what happens to the rest of His creation? What is it groaning for if sin has only been lifted from the 'elect'?
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I do, but amazing how many here seem to "not know that!"
     
  13. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    All of humanity's great advancements began as "heresy".
     
  14. drfuss

    drfuss New Member

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    What do Baptist believe?

    From the SBC Baptist Faith and Message:

    II. Man

    Man is the special creation of God, made in His own image. He created them male and female as the crowning work of His creation. The gift of gender is thus part of the goodness of God's creation. In the beginning man was innocent of sin and was endowed by his Creator with freedom of choice. By his free choice man sinned against God and brought sin into the human race. Through the temptation of Satan man transgressed the command of God, and fell from his original innocence whereby his posterity inherit a nature and an environment inclined toward sin. Therefore, as soon as they are capable of moral action, they become transgressors and are under condemnation. Only the grace of God can bring man into His holy fellowship and enable man to fulfill the creative purpose of God. The sacredness of human personality is evident in that God created man in His own image, and in that Christ died for man; therefore, every person of every race possesses full dignity and is worthy of respect and Christian love.
     
  15. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    What Baptists believed 156 years before the founding of the SBC:

    1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith:

    6.2 Our first parents, by this sin, fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and we in them whereby death came upon all: all becoming dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.
    ( Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12, etc; Titus 1:15; Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-19 )

    6.3 They being the root, and by God's appointment, standing in the room and stead of all mankind, the guilt of the sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed, to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus set them free.
    ( Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 49; Psalms 51:5; Job 14:4; Ephesians 2:3; Romans 6:20 Romans 5:12; Hebrews 2:14, 15; 1 Thessalonians 1:10 )
     
  16. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    What Baptists believed 201 years before the founding of the SBC:

    1644 London Baptist Confession of Faith:

    Part V

    All mankind being thus fallen, and become altogether dead in sins and trespasses, and subject to the eternal wrath of the great God by transgression; yet the elect, which God has(1) loved with an everlasting love, are(2) redeemed, quickened, and saved, not by themselves, neither by their own works, lest any man should boast himself, but wholly and only by God of(3) His free grace and mercy through Jesus Christ, who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, that as it is written he that rejoices, let him rejoice in the Lord.

    1) Jer. 31:2
    2) Gen 3:15; Eph. 1:3, 7; 2:4, 9; 1 Thes. 5:9; Acts 13:38
    3) 1 Cor.5:21; Jer. 9:23, 24
     
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Yes, dead in OUR sins and trespasses.
     
  18. Herald

    Herald New Member

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    Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    Col. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

    We certainly are guilty for our own transgressions. I will not debate you on that point. But both of the verses (above) that I have used to defend the Reformed view of being spiritually dead do not negate what is called the "Federal Headship view." Adam, acting as our just and fair representative, acted on our behalf when he sinned in the garden. That is why in Adam, all die (1 Cor. 15:22). We are sinners at birth. The idea that we are somehow blank slates is a hard one to swallow in light of scripture.
     
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This statement is much clearer and biblically accurate than the BFM.
     
  20. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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