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Featured Is Jesus Omniscient?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Dec 26, 2022.

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  1. Jesus exercised some dimensions of omniscience while on earth but subjected it to God

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  2. Jesus displayed omniscience in moral attributes but not amoral attributes

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  3. In his incarnation, Jesus laid aside the use of his attribute of omniscience.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    In different thread @37818 stated that Jesus is deliberately not omniscient.
    I replied with an article that provides 3 possible options. Which of the three do you hold, and why?


     
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Christ Jesus never ceased to be God while also being man. Thus, Christ Jesus has always been omniscient.

    For Christ Jesus to no have been omniscient at any point would have meant He ceased to be God at that point. God is always God. Period.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The connection doesn't work. God is spirit. Did Jesus cease to be God when He became flesh?

    I'm not saying you are wrong in viewing Jesus as omniscient (there may be an issue regarding what Jesus says He did not know but the Father did).

    I am saying those who believe omniscience was set aside are not rejecting Christ's divinity.
     
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  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Was Christ Jesus always 100% God at every point of His time on earth? YES!!!

    Is God always 100% omniscient? YES!!!

    Thus, Christ Jesus was always 100% omniscient at every point of His time on earth!!!
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did not change His omniscience in what He always has had as both the Son and being God. Genesis 22:12 as an example per John 1:18 and John 1:3
     
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Abraham's actions were not a surprise to God nor new information to God. God ordains all things that have ever and will ever take place in the universe.

    "And this is said, not as though he was ignorant before how things would issue; for he knew from all eternity what Abraham would be, and what he would do, having determined to bestow that grace upon him, and work it in him, which would influence and enable him to act the part he did; he knew full well beforehand what would be the consequence of such a trial of him; but this is said after the manner of men, who know things with certainty when they come to pass, and appear plain and evident."

    - from John Gill's Bible commentary on Genesis 22:12
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree that Jesus is 100% God.

    I am saying your method is flawed.

    Scripture tells us a few things on this topic:

    1. God is not man
    2. God is Spirit
    3. Jesus is man
    4. Jesus did not know all the Father knows

    If I use your method, then Jesus couldn't be God.
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Christ Jesus is God. Thus on this earth Christ Jesus always knew all that the Father knows. Period!!!

    Christ Jesus on this earth was the God-Man. He was not two separate entities. While on this earth He never ceased to be God while at the same time on this earth always being in a human body without sin.
     
  9. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Of these 3, which one is most accurate? Or is there a 4th option?

    There are three possible interpretations[7] of Jesus not knowing the time of his second coming:

    1. Jesus continued to exercise some dimensions of omniscience while on earth and the full exercise of his omniscience was subject to God the Father’s parameters;
    2. Jesus never failed to function on the level of the moral attributes, but frequently does not display the amoral attributes such as omniscience as these seemed to be subject to the guidance of the Holy Spirit and come to the human conscious level at the Spirit’s choosing (Dan Wallace’s view).
    3. In his incarnation, Jesus laid aside the use of his attribute of omniscience.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The 4th(Biblical) option is that Christ Jesus was always God while on this earth and always Man while on this earth and thus always had all of the attributes of God 100% of the time while also being in a human body 100% of the time while on this earth.
     
  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    You will have to explain these verses then. (not saying you are wrong, but saying these verses require explaining)
    verses:
    *Mark 13:32*
    “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
    *Acts 1:7*
    He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
    *John 14:6*
    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
    *John 1:18*
    No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.
    *Genesis 22:12*
    He said, “Do not lay your hand on the boy or do anything to him, for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me.”
    *Hebrews 1:3-4*
    He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

    These are the verses that @37818 cited.
     
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    When Christ Jesus was a baby in a manger, He was still upholding the universe by the word of His power.

    Do you really believe that Christ Jesus was ever, at any point in time, less than almighty God?
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone on this board really believe that Christ Jesus was only partly-God?
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Did God lie? God said, ". . . for now I know . . . ." You have only two honest choices where God is not lying. Open theism or spoke from His perspective as the eternal Son. John 1:3, John 1:18, Mark 13:32, Acts of the Apostles 1:7.
    Understand He was always the Son and aways fully God. His incarnation did not change this, see KJV John 3:13.
     
  15. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I think that we as fallen humans have a tendency, theologically, to get lost in gazing at the trees when we need to first be taking in the forest.
     
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Peter thought that our Lord is omniscient - John 21:17.
    He knows the thoughts of all men - John 2:24-25.
    On the other hand, He appears not to know all that the Father knows - Mark 13:32.

    When the Lord Jesus took on our humanity, there were certain limitations placed upon Him - Hebrews 2:17:
    He became tired and weary (Mark 4:38; John 4:6). God does not get tired - Isaiah 40:28.
    He became hungry and thirsty (Matthew 4:2; John 4:7; 19:28). God does not get hungry - Psalms 50:12-13

    I'll be interested to get the views of others on these points..
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    There is a problem with your post.

    In Mark 13:32–33 Jesus said "of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

    You say Jesus did know, which would make Jesus a liar.

    But Scripture says that God doesn't lie.
     
  18. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    …he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
    Phil 2:7
     
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  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In His incarnation He became part of His creation. Only how He was with God changed, He never changed that He was fully God. Hebrews 4:15, Luke 18:19, John 3:13 KJV before the cross and Hebrews 13:8 after His bodily resurrection.
     
    #19 37818, Dec 26, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2022
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe that Christ Jesus was ever, while on this earth, less than almighty God?
     
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