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Featured "Is King James Onlyism Scriptural?"

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by robycop3, Mar 22, 2020.

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  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I carefully re-read Will Kinney's article, "Is King James Onlyism Scriptural?", and, while he SAYS it is, he FAILS TO PROVIDE ONE QUARK OF SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS IT IS ! ! !

    Instead, he posts several verses that are found in every other valid English Bible translation, & includes the disproven "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie" as well. (The AV 1611 itself proves that "thingie" wrong with its footnote for the 2nd "them" in V7 - "Heb. him, I. Euery one of them.")

    He refuses to acknowledge any of the KJV's goofs & booboos, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4, "Thou shalt not KILL" in Ex. 20:13, the ADDITION of "and shalt be" in Rev. 16:5, or the OMISSION of "through our Lord Jesus Christ" in Jude 25.(Remember, both addition and omission of any of God's word is as sin !)

    Mr. Kinney cannot answer the "no Scriptural support" fact, so he tries to reverse the fact by saying that no other version is mentioned either. However, he ignores the FACT that, by not limiting Himself to any one translation in any language, God allows men to make new Bible translations as He wills. As Master of all language, God knows languages change over time, by His will, and thus, new translations of His word are needed. He originally caused His word to be written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, & Koine Greek because those were the languages used by His chosen penmen, and by His intended readership at that time. When God's time came to spread Christianity beyond the Jews & those peoples whom they lived among, God caused His word to be translated into other languages. Now, it's translated into some 2500 languages & dialects, even into some which have no written forms.

    The TRUTH is, GOD IS NOT LIMITED in English, or any other language, to just one translation ! While some languages have only one translation, that's because they're recent ones, & that particular language isn't changing much. Mr. Kinney is simply COMPLETELY WRONG! But his obsession with the KJV & the KJVO myth won't let him see the truth.

    The answer to the article's title question is a resounding "NO !"
     
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  2. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    @robycop3 :
    Your avatar picture seems to me to be one of a rough, tough "scrapper" that is always looking for a fight, my friend.
    Unfortunately, the title of your article does nothing to dissuade me from believing that, nor does my interaction with you over these past two years or so...:(

    Believe me, I understand your motivations, or at least I think that I do.

    But I've found out the hard way that all my efforts at trying to get people to see my point of view really don't make a difference in the long run.
    Some will listen, most won't...and I've come to accept that.
    What's more, I'm coming to see that it's best to leave off contention:

    " The beginning of strife [is] as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with." ( Proverbs 17:14 ).
    " The beginning of strife [is like] releasing water; Therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts." ( Proverbs 17:14, NKJV ).

    Read the Proverbs, my brother, and heed them.
    They are a wealth of wisdom.
    Also, may I encourage you not to keep railing on Will Kinney, or other "KJVO's / KJVP's"?
    We are, frankly, persuaded differently than you and we've tried to tell you our concerns.

    It has nothing to do with whether or not one old English translation of the Bible should be forced upon believers...
    It has everything to do with manuscripts and translation techniques, and utlimately, with men maltreating God's precious words in these last days...
    Men who don't seem to care about Matthew 4:4 and Luke 4:4.

    Many of us see something far more subtle at work in the making of most of the newer English translations, and it's not godly.
    It's confusing, and God is not the author of confusion in His churches.

    So far you are in opposition to the evidence that some have tried to show you, and by all appearances, will remain so.
    I respect that.
    What's more, beating on each other and seeking to refute each other's position, does nothing to edify anyone in the process.:Redface

    His word tells us:

    " Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
    26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
    27 neither give place to the devil.
    28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
    29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
    30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
    31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
    32 and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you."
    ( Ephesians 4:25-32 ).

    Also:

    " For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
    16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law."
    ( Galatians 5:13-18 ).

    Finally,

    " Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
    " ( Galatians 5:19-26 ).


    May God bless you with many good things as you grow in both His knowledge and grace.
     
    #3 Dave G, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  4. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You fail to demonstrate that to be true.

    KJV-only advocates present no sound textual measures that they apply consistently and justly to all original-language manuscript copies of the Scriptures.

    KJV-only advocates present no translation techniques that they apply consistently and justly to all Bible translations including the KJV.

    They may arbitrarily and inconsistently assume by use of fallacies that every translation decision by the biased Church of England makers of the KJV has to be correct even when it may be inconsistent and may violate a just application of scriptural truths.

    Perhaps the biased Church of England makers of the KJV maltreated God's precious words in some of the hundreds and thousands of changes that they made to the pre-1611 English Bibles. Some of the changes in the 1611 edition of the KJV were made to favor Church of England episcopal church government views and to favor the divine right of kings view of King James I.

    In some of their marginal notes in the 1611, the KJV translators themselves acknowledged that they did not provide an English word for every original-language word of Scripture in their underlying texts. The KJV translators also indicated that they added many words for which they had no original-language word of Scripture so that the KJV cannot soundly be regarded a every word translation.

    KJV-only advocates have not presented any positive, consistent, sound, edifying, scriptural case for their KJV-only claims.
     
    #4 Logos1560, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps showing a spirit of contention and strife, do you in effect accuse Bible believers who translate the Scriptures into present-day English and who do not blindly accept human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/teaching of not caring about the words of God?

    Human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/teaching displays a spirit of contention, and it makes use of carnal, smear tactics against any believers who dare to disagree with its inconsistent, unproven claims.
    KJV-only advocates will attempt to bite and devour any believer who questions their inconsistent, confusing, human KJV-only reasoning/teaching. Some posters seem to rail against and attack any poster who questions and refutes human KJV-only reasoning/teaching.
     
    #5 Logos1560, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    The KJVO myth is FALSE, & there's no getting by that fact. But NO KJVO will face the FACT that their myth has no Scriptural support, a fact that renders it false without further explanation being necessary. But we present other facts proving that falsehood for those who try to ignore the lack of Scriptural support.

    As Christians, we have a D-U-T-Y to fight false doctrines of faith/worship, & to warn others against them. And no doctrine of faith/worship not found in Scripture is true. ONLY GOD makes TURE doctrines of faith/worship !

    Mr. Kinney is one of the busiest disseminators of the pack of lies known as the KJVO myth. My OP is directed more against his hooey than against the KJV itself. Please note that he won't appear on any site or discussion board where he can't suppress any opposition to his garbage. that fact alone speax VOLUMES about his veracity. (Or lack thereof !)

    Now, long as the KJVO myth is still out there, I'm gonna fight it long as I'm able, along with other false doctrines such as preterism & hyper-calvinism, & "Jesus is the archangel Michael", & cults such as JW, LDS, SDA, several pentecostal branches, etc.

    You're right - I am a FIGHTER !

    "There's no substitute for victory!" - Gen. Mac Arthur

    "A cowboy's work is never done !"
     
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  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Mr. Gilbert, speaking of Matt. 4:4 & Luke 4:4, can you **PROVE** that the NKJV or ESV, for example, don't contain all of God's word that he intended for us to have ?

    And, can you **PROVE** the KJV DOES, in the face of the FACT that the KJV OMITS the words "through our Lord Jesus Christ" in Jude 25? And, ADDS the words "and shalt be" in Rev. 16:5? (Please show us MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE for that one !)

    Mr. Kinney can't do it. Perhaps you could help him ?
     
  8. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Another thing, Mr. Gilbert - Were you present when any of the ancient Scriptural mss. were written ? Do you know where & when most were written ? Do you know who wrote them ? Do you know what source (s) any of the writers used ?

    If not, then you have no right to judge or criticize any of them.

    My answers to my own questions above is "No." Thus, I accept what GOD has made available to me. Just as we get some picture of the earthly life of Jesus from the four Gospels, all different, as they were written by different men, it's the same for Scripture in general. God has preserved the works of many different writers of His word to pass on to us. We have no authority to reject any of it.
     
  9. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps you all do not see clearly and justly.

    According to a consistent application of your statement in consideration of the facts that the word of God had already been translated into English many years before 1611, that there were already several English Bible translations before 1611, and that the majority of English-speaking believers read, accepted, trusted, and loved the 1560 Geneva Bible, does your reasoning in effect assert there was no need for the making of yet another English translation in 1611, that it would have caused confusion by introducing new changes to the pre-1611 word of God in English, and that the making of the KJV would have been not godly?

    Do you consider the motives and intentions behind the making of the KJV and do you apply the same measures/standards to its making?

    Do you acknowledge that God is not the authority of the confusion in His churches caused by erroneous, man-made traditions or human reasoning including KJV-onlyism?
     
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  10. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

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    IMO, these type of threads have been proven to be fruitless. But I'm sure they will continue to be reincarnated repeatedly. IMO, people that write books, if they generate income from such topics, should not be allowed to repeatedly keep the topics going.
    IMO, the policy of closing these type threads allows for the same topic to be regurgitated over and over again.
    IMO, it would be better to let one stay open, and let it die the death of staleness.
     
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  11. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Is it surprising that any believer would regard it as fruitless for other believers to present verifiable facts, to present sound, scripturally-based reasons concerning human, non-scriptural KJV-only reasoning/teaching, and to expose the use of fallacies and the use of unscriptural, unjust divers measures/standards evident in KJV-only claims and reasoning?
     
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  12. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Listen, the topic has been beaten to death for YEARS!!! Nothing new has been posted. Same old arguments with the same old "copy and paste" diatribes. No one has changed their minds, and frankly, no one wants to listen to you two any longer. Is that too much to ask? It gets annoying if you want the truth. Go get a life other than posting about KJVO on the internet 24/7! What a sad life you must lead, if this is ALL you do (and it seems it is). I've never seen such obsession in my life! Is that clear enough for you?
     
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  13. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    You are mistaken.

    Your failure to notice the new information and changes to what I post does not prove that nothing new has been posted.

    Erroneous, human KJV-only reasoning/teaching clearly has not died. Recent threads reveal that there are present posters who have indicated approval and praise for incorrect KJV-only claims.

    It may be sad that some believers are annoyed by those who advocate a consistent, just application of scriptural truths and who soundly oppose non-scriptural or false teaching.
     
    #13 Logos1560, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Long as the KJVO myth still exists, & new Christians are exposed to it, we, as Christians, have a D-U-T-Y to fight it. as it is a patently-false doctrine. And KJVOs keep bringing up the same ole refuted arguments to new generations of Christians.

    You are free to skip over any thread or post you don't care to read, so drop your complaints in the box.
     
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  15. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    .....and if you don't like my comments, you're free to ignore them, also. :)
     
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  16. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    I work a full-time, second-shift job 40 hours a week, sometimes 48 hours so it is impossible for me to be doing what you incorrectly allege.

    Are you perhaps obsessed with posting your negative, incorrect allegations against a believer and with seeming to want to silence those who post truth?
     
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  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Long as KJVO exists, it must be fought. Same for other false doctrines.
     
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  18. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    No prob.
     
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  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    When the Lord gets a hold of you, and I mean really gets a hold of you and shows you what we all are in His mirror, you won't keep feeling that way.
    You will quickly realize ( as I have ) that all that hot-headedness was for nothing, as it served no purpose other than to show you exactly what the Lord Jesus died for;
    Our own stubbornness and refusal to repent of our rebellion towards Him.

    As Christians, we have a DUTY to obey the Lord in all things.
    It is our reasonable service ( Romans 12 ) for what He has done for us...

    To send His Son to die on a tree so that we may be forgiven of sins that would otherwise cause us to be cast into eternal fire.
    Let us remember that, as it is far more important than this discussion will ever be.

    As I see it, you, Logos and a few others on this forum seem to keep forgetting that.
    Perhaps someday it will sink in, my friend, as I hope it does for all who read this.

    Until then, I will only post on these threads in the interests of edification...
    I'm not going to keep up this round-and-round just so that you and a few others have someone to fight against.
    I hate war, Roby...
    I've seen the effects of it, mainly at a distance.

    I have no wish to see more of it close-up, and definitely not with professing believers in Jesus Christ.


    Again, May God bless you, and each and every person here, by reminding us of His great grace.
     
    #19 Dave G, Mar 22, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
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  20. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    That hit home with me, Dave. Thank you for posting that. I apologize and ask Roby and Logos for forgiveness for my un-Christlike attitude and posts. I will stop. God bless!
     
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