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Is the KJV of God or man?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by swordsman, Nov 22, 2003.

  1. Scott J

    Scott J New Member

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    "Watered down" gospel is found in Galatians 1:7-12. </font>[/QUOTE] You know, I am not a fan of the NIV but this is not watered down:

    Galatians 1
    7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
    10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

    11I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

    "Eternally condemned" is a good bit more pointed than "accursed".
     
  2. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    But as we have constantly pointed out and proved to you from Scripture, your belief is wrong. Remember, belief is not the test of truth; conformity to truth is the test of truth. The truth is that modern versions do not water down the Bible. They are the Bible. Modern preachers may water down the Bible, but that is a far different issues. More and more, it sounds like the greatest need you have is to be around some good people who use modern versions. Most of your false notions would be easily dispelled. </font>[/QUOTE]That's just it, I'm around people ever day that use modern versions and their livestyles are happy-go-lucky. They curse, drink, wear provocative clothes, listen to ungodly music, etc.. </font>[/QUOTE]Correct! I agree with you because I saw something unbiblically among "lax" Christians, who used modern versions, in their church.

    I visited one church defending the KJV, however these lax Christians have unbiblical and sinful practices with their modern version "Watered Down" Bibles. The KJV church fell in lax Christians' shoes now. Why? Because these LAX Christians dislike the KJV. What damage!
     
  3. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    When I say "meat" I mean convicting power. Ever modernist I've meet seems to be slacked on issues of drinking, dress, going to church when the doors are open, tithing, hanging out with the lost, etc.
    I agree there should be a balance. But, when preaching a salvation message, the message should have were you're at now, lost and going to hell. Then show that God loves them and by his grace, not love, made a way out, that is Jesus Christ.
     
  4. Scott J

    Scott J New Member

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    Did you read my post? KJVO churches are not immune from significant failures in holiness. They are however much more likely to substitute their personal interpretations of being "lax" for biblical standards of behavior.

    Huh? Please re-word this, it makes no sense.
    These churches fell in "lax Christians' shoes" because they "dislike the KJV"? Please prove this cause and effect.

    Perhaps they became lax because they held to KJVOnlyism too long causing their people to stop reading and understanding their Bibles. Maybe these "lax Christians" are the result of many years of not understanding the KJV but being afraid to use anything else. Maybe modern versions will cure this ill by giving the people words that they can understand and grow by.... maybe- no certainly- my speculation about this cause and effect is more likely than yours.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    Please tell us what is corrupted in Gal 1:7-12

    Please name such a church so we can see for ourselves.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    And I am around people everyday who use modern versions who are passionate about their faith, who are sharing it with the friends, who are vital building blocks of the church, who dress modestly and dont' curse.

    The point is that you are blaming this on the wrong thing. It is not the version of the Bible. How can you not see something so plain?? As I keep telling you, there are plenty of modern version users who do none of those things.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    Nooooo! Wrong! 6,500 watered down words in the NIV! 4,000+ watered down words in NASB! And so on. Are they the Bible? Noooo! [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Start learning here. Stop repeating lies. We have already given you the truth about that.
     
  8. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    Most modernists are these things. But that is confusing this discussion. One is not a modernist because he uses a modern version. That shows a lack of theological knowledge on your part to confuse the two.

    God made a way of salvation by his grace, not his love??? Surely you are kidding. Did you forget John 3:16 that tells us that it was love?? What about 1 John 4???

    Have we really stooped to this level in order to attack God's word??

    The KJVO church I used to work in preached a very weak gospel. The church was not growing. The people were carnal and lax. All because they used the KJV.

    Now, see how silly that argument is?? It had nothign to do with the version they used at all, just as the state of many people who claim to be Christians but are weak has nothing to do with the version they use. That is poor thinking, poor logic, and poor argumentation.
     
  9. Scott J

    Scott J New Member

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    When I say "meat" I mean convicting power. Ever modernist I've meet seems to be slacked on issues of drinking, dress, going to church when the doors are open, tithing, hanging out with the lost, etc.</font>[/QUOTE] So if I can give proof texts against these things from modern versions you will acknowledge that you are wrong?

    But to the point, I don't consider only condemning those things "meat". You must also use God's Word to teach someone how to live and do battle. How to deal with weakness. How to pray and serve. They shouldn't just be told to give, they should be told why and in what spirit.

    BTW, using a modern translation and being a modernist are not synonomous. Modernism is a philosophical viewpoint. KJVO's are far more modernistic in their thinking than Christians who hold to the orthodox doctrine on the Bible.

    I agree there should be a balance. But, when preaching a salvation message, the message should have were you're at now, lost and going to hell. Then show that God loves them and by his grace, not love, made a way out, that is Jesus Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]John MacArthur (a modern version user) has a new book out that goes even further than you called, "Hard to Believe".

    Not only must one recognize that they are sinners, lost and hellbound. We must also not come into salvation expecting a walk in the Rose Garden. Christianity isn't a call to an easy lifestyle. It is a call to sacrifice and service.

    Saving conviction isn't just a belief in hell and a desire to avoid it but also a call to a purpose and a relationship. No one wants to go to hell and most people believe in hell. But a simple recitation of the "sinner's prayer" isn't enough to keep someone out of hell.

    That's what I call "meat".
     
  10. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    This is the difference between a KJB lax Christian and a modernist lax Christian.

    KJB lax Christians get confronted about their laxed life and say, "yes, I know this is not were god wants me, please pray for me."

    Modernist lax Christians gets confronted about their laxed life and say, "why you judging me, you're being legalistic, how dare you, then goes and teaches Sunday school.

    Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
     
  11. Scott J

    Scott J New Member

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    Not from my experience. Many if not most of the lax KJVO's I have known get hopping mad when someone accuses them and goes into denial. But to be honest, this is the reaction most people have, Christian/non-Christian or KJV/other version.

    This may be your bias speaking.

    I know this not to be a universal rule. There are KJVO's who behave this way and non-KJVO's who don't. The greater question would be whether someone like this is Christian at all.

    I know a lady who is a hardened KJVO. But she gets bitterly offended anytime her behavior is questioned. In her own mind, the legalist is anyone who points out a flaw in her yet she is one of the more legalistic people I have run across. She is certainly not meek by any stretch.

    1Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. ESV

    The test is in the response but version use is not an accurate indicator.
     
  12. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    We'll see.
    I agree, they should be shown from Scripture that this is right.
    Let me say AMEN! Agreeing with you twice in one post is giving me a headache.
    WOW! Three times in a row. I don't believe in 1, 2, 3 your saved either.
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Active Member

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    That's just it, I'm around people ever day that use modern versions and their livestyles are happy-go-lucky. They curse, drink, wear provocative clothes, listen to ungodly music, etc.

    _____________________________________________

    And I'm around KJVOs such as Mormons, Branch Davidians, Oneness Pentecostals, and members of a hundred other little cults and cultettes who "have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof". Am I to blame this on the KJV?

    Sorry, Sir, but to blame a lifestyle upon a Bible version is pure codwallop. I know you Onlyists are desperate for ANYTHING to lend some credence to your myth, but this is rank amateur stuff.
     
  14. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    Never seen Mormons, Branch Davidians, Oneness Pentecostals, and members of a hundred other little cults and cultettes who dared to believe only in the King James Bible.
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Active Member

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    Never seen Mormons, Branch Davidians, Oneness Pentecostals, and members of a hundred other little cults and cultettes who dared to believe only in the King James Bible.

    __________________________________________
    Well, I HAVE.

    I know the Mormons believe some other works are also Scripture, but just ask any of them what BIBLE they use. As for the others, just ask any of them the same thing.

    And ya might add the names of cult leaders Marshall Applewhite(Heaven's Gate), Jim Jones(Jonestown mass suicide) and David Koresh(The Waco Wacko) to the list of exclusive KJV users. Since they're all now dead, ya can't interview them, but you CAN verify what BV they used on the net.

    Please provide proof that every Bible reader who uses only the KJV is saved, and that every one who uses any other version(s) is not saved.
     
  16. RaptureReady

    RaptureReady New Member

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    Even they believe the Bible they use is the infallible King James Bible.
    I never said they weren't saved.
     
  17. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member

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    Even they believe the Bible they use is the infallible King James Bible.
    I never said they weren't saved.
    </font>[/QUOTE]The Mormons only believe the Bible is the word of God "so far as it is translated correctly." So what does that say about the KJV to them?
     
  18. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Which KJVO?

    Their moral life changed to be weak.

    No, that is not good enough to reason. Their carnal life increases; their spiritual life deceases. They no longer fear their God.

    The watered down modern versions changed their life to be lax Christians. According to HomeBound, he wrote, "That may be one reason for the why people dress, act, drink, etc.. they don't have the truth preached." I agree with HomeBound.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>

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    But this is the non-sequitur. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the modern versions are what caused this laxness. I know many faithful, fervent Christians who use modern versions. That shows your theory to be wrong.
     
  20. LarryN

    LarryN New Member

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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by HomeBound:
    That's just it, I'm around people ever day that use modern versions and their livestyles are happy-go-lucky. They curse, drink, wear provocative clothes, listen to ungodly music, etc.. I know several replies have already addressed this statement- but I can't pass it up.

    HomeBound, what's your point? That people who use versions other than the KJV sin? NEWSFLASH: I am aware of plenty of KJV-onlyists who also sin.
    I can think of adulterers, wife-beaters, child molesters, thiefs, and those guilty of many other sins who all professed to be KJVO's.
    I can think offhand of a KJVO Christian-school principal who was arrested for soliciting an undercover police officer; and his son (who then assumed the position of principal) who was the object of a nation-wide manhunt after he kidnapped & molested one of his 11-year old students.
    I can think of the husband & wife who taught at a well-known KJVO college who are now serving 114 and 65 years respectively for brutal, inhuman crimes against a girl they called their daughter (although she was never legally adopted).

    Do I think that these and others I could describe (who professed to believe in the KJV only) commited their acts because of the Bible version they used? Of course not.


    Others have mentioned some of these persons already- but the KJV was the Bible of Joseph Smith, Ellen G. White, Mary Baker Eddy, Jim Jones, David Koresh, and countless others who have expounded heretical doctrines & beliefs. Should I attribute their actions to use of the KJV?
     
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