1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Is the Land of Israel Still a Special Place to God? Part 2

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Scripture More Accurately, Dec 26, 2021.

  1. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In a previous thread, "Is the Land of Israel Still a Special Place to God?" I provided biblical evidence and reasoning that showed that the land of Israel (especially Jerusalem) was and is still special to God.

    In post #113 of that thread, I summarized four aspects:

    "1. God cared for that land in a special way before there were any Israelites

    2. God made Melchizedek a priest and he was the king of Jerusalem, which shows that Jerusalem was a place of the true worship of the true God before there were any Israelites.

    3. The land of Israel was and is special to God because it was/is the place of the tombs and of the burial in other ways as well of many of His choicest servants.

    4. God cared for that land when the Israelites were not in the land as a nation because He had judged them for their sinfulness of not allowing the land to rest in its sabbaths. Through His judgments on them, the land enjoyed that rest while they were in exile."
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    In post #114 of that thread, I treated a fifth aspect:

    "As a fifth aspect of how Scripture reveals that the land of Israel was special to God, consider what God did when He removed Israel from the Northern Kingdom for their wickedness:

    2 Kings 17:23 Until the LORD removed Israel out of his sight, as he had said by all his servants the prophets. So was Israel carried away out of their own land to Assyria unto this day.

    As a result of God's judgment, the Assyrian king subsequently settled pagans in the land of Israel who did not fear the Lord:

    24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. 25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.

    Notice carefully what God did on this occasion. Even though He had removed Israel from the land, He still cared whether or not those who were dwelling in that land feared Him. Because the pagans who were in that land then did not fear Him, God sent lions to punish them!

    It is impossible to say that this passage shows that the land was only special because of the Israelites because if that were the case, God would not have cared what would have taken place in the land once the Israelites were out of the land.

    The passage, however, clearly shows that God did care about what took place in that land even when the Israelites were no longer there!

    As a result of what God did, the new inhabitants of the Northern Kingdom who were unbelievers somehow yet knew and told the Assyrian king that the God of the land was judging them because they did not know "the manner of the God of the land":


    26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land.

    In response, the Assyrian king--who was an unbeliever-- ordered that one of the Israelite priests be sent back to teach the new inhabitants the manner of the God of the land:

    27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land.

    28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD.

    Even though the Israelites were no longer in the land--and never returned to the Northern Kingdom--God acted so that those who lived in that land still feared Him. Clearly, God wanted whoever inhabited that land to fear Him. His concern for that land was not at all only because the Israelites were there and only as long as they were there.

    This passage definitively shows that the land of Israel was special to God even after He had expelled the Israelites from the Northern Kingdom!"
    _______________________________________________________________________________

    In post #130 of that thread, I treated a sixth aspect:


    "Psalm 48:2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

    Matthew 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

    In His day, Jesus confirmed, just as the Psalmist under inspiration proclaimed long ago in Ps. 48:2, that Jerusalem was still the city of the great King. Jesus thus taught that Jerusalem was still a uniquely special city to God as the great King over all.

    Jesus said this at a time when there was not any Jewish king ruling over that city. Jesus' words link directly with the revelation about Melchizedek to show that Jerusalem had been (and still was) a uniquely special royal city to God from the time of Melchizedek until that very day that Jesus spoke these words!"

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    In this thread, I would like to provide additional biblical evidence and reasoning concerning why the land of Israel was and is still a special place to God.
     
    #1 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 26, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I see that He cared... not necessarily for the land itself, but Who ( and who ) would later occupy it...
    As you've already shown:

    " but I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
    35 nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King."
    ( Matthew 5:34-35 ).

    " Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, [is] mount Zion, [on] the sides of the north, the city of the great King." ( Psalms 48:2, as you've pointed out above ).

    See also Psalms 132 and Psalms 68.
     
    #2 Dave G, Dec 26, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I find that I must disagree slightly here and submit my reasons:

    1) According to the Scriptures, Melchizedek was the king of Salem ( "Sa-lem" or "Peace", Genesis 1:18-19, Hebrews 7:2, Š-L-M, Salām, سلام, Arabic for "peace", Shalom = Hebrew for "peace" ), not the king of the Jebusite city ( 1 Chronicles 11:4-9 ) that would later come to be called "Jeru ( city of ) -salem ( peace )". I can find no evidence that he was the king of that city, but if you have some Scriptures to share I'd like to take a look.

    2) Also according to the Scriptures, the place of the true worship of God is in a person's heart and mind ( John 4:24 ), and anywhere that Jesus Christ ( God in the flesh ) will stand on. That is why it is appropriate to consider that any person that His Spirit indwells is holy to Him, or any ground upon which the Lord blesses or stands on is holy....like Jerusalem;

    Both because His people dwell there and because He will rule from it.
     
    #3 Dave G, Dec 26, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree.
    Again I agree, and for the specific reason that to me, He views it as special because of Who would later rule from it...His Son;
    And who would later inhabit it and rule with Him from it for 1,000 years... His people.
    Once again I agree, and it is because it will be ( from our vantage point ) the city of the great King when He comes again.
    He will rule from the throne of His father David with a rod of iron, and all the kingdoms of the earth will pay Him homage.

    The Law will go forth at that time from Zion ( Jerusalem... Isaiah 2:3, Micah 4:2 ).

    He will first rule His enemies from there during the 1,000 years ( Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 2, Zechariah 13, Zechariah 14, Micah 4 ), and then after that is finished, He will rule in the New Jerusalem ( Revelation 21 ) and the nations of those who are saved will live there.
    I look forward to it.
     
    #4 Dave G, Dec 26, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
  5. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I will have to reenter this response later.
     
  6. xlsdraw

    xlsdraw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    886
    Likes Received:
    203
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those that deny the literal and physical Millennial Reign of Christ, are they which oppose the literal and physical Millennial Reign of Christ.

    Your list will be long, if you attempt to list the multitude of scriptures that point to the literal and physical Millennial Reign of Christ.

    Sadly, with this topic, just as we can also list from the scriptures, the multitude of fallacies in Catholicism: there seems to be a powerful and wicked spiritual force holding people in their false theologies. Blinding them from receiving the Truth.

    This leads me to believe, that the emergence of the Antichrist kingdom is very near. Ironically, as prophecied, the Antichrist will be received as king over the earth.
     
  7. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Hebrew word for "Salem" in Gen. 14:18 is shalem. That word used in that sense occurs twice in Scripture:

    Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

    ‎WTT Genesis 14:18 וּמַלְכִּי־צֶ֙דֶק֙ מֶ֣לֶךְ שָׁלֵ֔ם הוֹצִ֖יא לֶ֣חֶם וָיָ֑יִן וְה֥וּא כֹהֵ֖ן לְאֵ֥ל עֶלְיֽוֹן׃
    (Gen. 14:18 WTT)

    Psalm 76:2 In Salem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.

    ‎WTT Psalm 76:3 וַיְהִ֣י בְשָׁלֵ֣ם סֻכּ֑וֹ וּמְע֖וֹנָת֣וֹ בְצִיּֽוֹן׃ (Ps. 76:3 WTT)


    Holladay, Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the OT (HOL)
    Hol8663 שָׁלֵם
    II שָׁלֵם: n. loc., presumably = Jerusalem Gn 1418 Ps 763. † )pg 373(

    Based on its usage and its lexical meaning (as given by the standard Heb. lexicon's entry for that word that I have cited above), I believe that Genesis 14:18 does teach that Melchizedek was the king of Salem, that is, Jerusalem.
     
    #7 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 26, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
    • Informative Informative x 3
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,872
    Likes Received:
    1,652
    Faith:
    Baptist
    No. The land of Canaan is no longer special. It has fulfilled its purpose with the coming of Jesus Christ.

    There is no separate future for Israel and the church. There is no restoration of the Temple and sacrifices. There is no 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth.

    The only prophecy yet to be fulfilled is the great tribulation of the saints, followed by the Second Coming of Christ, the collection of the saints still living and resurrection of the dead, the great throne judgment and eternal peace with God.

    The land of Canaan will be destroyed with everything else.

    peace to you
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    These are mere assertions of your positions that you hold. As such, they do not answer the considerations that I have treated.
     
    #9 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 26, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
  10. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree that there are numerous passages that teach the glorious truth of the literal and physical Millennial Reign of Christ. I am not going to try to provide a list of those Scriptures. Rather, I am going to present various considerations that I believe are key in supporting my positions.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,872
    Likes Received:
    1,652
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You have been given volumes in the other thread which you ignored out of hand and refused to consider.

    Where there are many words, transgression is certain.

    peace to you
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I did not ignore anything. I believe that I have answered biblically whatever has been said. We are certainly not going to agree on this subject so it would be best that you not comment any further in this thread lest you transgress by repeatedly speaking the same words that state faulty positions.
     
    #12 Scripture More Accurately, Dec 26, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,872
    Likes Received:
    1,652
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It’s your thread. I’ll honor your request and leave you to it.

    Thanks for the conversation

    peace to you
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    377
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How is it that the views of those who disagree with you are "mere assertions of your positions that we hold" and your views are not? You base your views on certain Scripture passages, but so do I. Clearly this comes down to a matter of interpretation.

    I must agree there, that we are certainly not going to agree on this subject. From your last comment to @canadyjd, you are looking for an echo chamber instead of a conversation where different views are welcome. Likewise, I will also honor your request and leave you to it.
     
  15. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's highly inappropriate for you to use my comments that were directed to someone else and respond to them as if they were directed to you. You are unethically interacting with me when you do that.

    For the record, you and I had considerable interaction in the previous thread, but we have had no interaction in this thread. It is your own fault when you choose to take comments that were directed to someone else and regard them as also directed to you.
     
  16. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2018
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    377
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If I thought it was inappropriate or unethical to join in, I wouldn't have done it. This is a fairly common practice on the Baptist Board (and other chat rooms). When I agree with someone else's position, it seems most appropriate to jump in. I'm sure @canadyjd would tell me if there is a problem.

    I do apologize, as I never intended to offend you or anyone else. I will limit my responses to only you on your threads since you find this inappropriate.
     
  17. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    According to divine revelation, Jerusalem is the only city in the history of the world that God has spoken of as "the holy city." This unique divine designation for Jerusalem shows that the city was special to God in a way that no other city has ever been.

    Neh. 11:1 And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.

    Neh. 11:18 All the Levites in the holy city were two hundred fourscore and four.

    Isa. 48:2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; The LORD of hosts is his name.

    Isa. 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.

    Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Matt. 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

    Matt. 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

    Rev. 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

    Three NT references clearly show that Jerusalem was still "the holy city" of God even when there was no nation of Israel and there was no Jewish king ruling over Israel or the city. Jerusalem's status as that unique city was unchanged even long after God had judged that nation and those people for their unfaithfulness.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,817
    Likes Received:
    2,106
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Galatians 4:24-26, 31. '.......Which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar - for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children - but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. ................ So then, brethren, we are not the children of the bondwoman, but of the free.'

    Notwithstanding your best efforts on this thread and the preceding one, I am more interested in the Jerusalem that is above, as were the Patriarchs (Hebrews 11:16).
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The land from Eden has had a special role throughout history of this earth.

    Yet, it is that believers are not subjects of this world, but are children of the God of all creation.

    So, what then does the land still have that is important?

    It is part of the yet unfulfilled prophetic statements in which the Jews who will be redeemed of every tribe will see fulfilled.

    From Augustine (for he turned from teaching the truth concerning the last days) there have been schemes conjured up to replace the direct teaching of the physical return promised in Scriptures and taught by the early centuries of the church.

    I would rather trust that the prophetic statements that were so reliable considering the messiah over 2000 years ago, did not diminish in veracity merely because a few days have passed.

    The same trickery of the Eden used by the enemy of God, used in the time of testing of the Savior, is certainly being seen in evidence as folks turn from the truths of the Scriptures and have the audacity to pronounce them as allegorical and already fulfilled.
     
  20. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    102
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Looking forward to the New Jerusalem is certainly biblical and a glorious hope, but longing for the worldwide vindication that Christ will receive in the earthly Jerusalem during the Millennium and for all the other glories that will be ours in that period is also preeminently biblical.
     
Loading...