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Featured Is the Pope as he claims “God on Earth”.

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Hobie, Feb 21, 2020.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    In his encyclical, "The Reunion of Christendom" (1885), Pope Leo XIII stated that the pope holds "upon this earth the place of God Almighty."

    In the Catechism, can be found the following: "The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the pope has supreme and full power in faith and morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true Vicar of Christ, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by one, God himself on earth." and also "The Pope can make and unmake laws for the entire Church; his authority is supreme and unquestioned. Every bishop, every priest, every member of the Church is subject to him."

    Here are some others…"The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh." (Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895, pg. 15, published in London by J. S. Phillips)

    "Against this background of love towards Holy Church, 'the pillar and bulwark of the truth' (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for 'THE LORD POPE', the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called 'SWEET CHRIST ON EARTH'." (Pope John Paul II, Apostolic Exhortation on the Consecrated Life and Its Mission in the Church and in the World, to the bishops and clergy, religious orders and congregations, societies of apostolic life, secular institutes, and all the faithful, given in Rome, at Saint Peter's, March 25, 1996)

    "The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God and the vicar of God." (Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary)

    "All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope." (On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17)

    "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." (Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous)

    "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical." (the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII *** inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

    "Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions." (Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', p.26)

    "The Saviour Himself is the door of the sheepfold: 'I am the door of the sheep.' Into this fold of Jesus Christ, no man may enter unless he be led by the Sovereign Pontiff; and only if they be united to him can men be saved, for the Roman Pontiff is the Vicar of Christ and His personal representative on earth." (Pope John XXIII in his homily to the Bishops and faithful assisting at his coronation on November 4, 1958)

    "This is our last lesson to you: receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God's commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church; the strong and effective instrument of salvation is none other than the Roman Pontificate." (Pope Leo XIII, Allocution for the 25th anniversary of his election, February 20, 1903; Papal Teachings: The Church, Benedictine Monks of Solesmes, St. Paul Editions, Boston, 1962, par. 653)

    He calls himself the Supreme ruler of heaven and earth, the Supreme Pontiff, the Holy Father, which belong only to God and "God himself on earth". No such terms were given to a mere man anywhere in scripture and the term "Holy Father" is used only by Jesus in John 17:11 as He prayed to God the Father. For a sinful man to assume the authority and titles which belong only to God, seems the height of blasphemy.

    So the Pope has laid claim to take the place of God with infallible authority and we find the Council of Trent declared: "Sitting in that chair in which Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, sat to the close of life, the Catholic Church recognizes in his person the most exalted degree of dignity, and the full jurisdiction not based on constitutions, but emanating from no less authority than from God Himself. As the Successor of St. Peter and the true and legitimate Vicar of Jesus Christ, he therefore, presides over the Universal Church, the Father and Governor of all the faithful, of Bishops, also and of all other prelates, be their station, rant, or power, what they may be."

    So its not just the Pope, the councils have also laid claim that the Pope holds of himself what can only be termed as "God on Earth".
     
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  2. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    So it then brings up the issue does the Pope have the authority to change times and laws of God? Lets see what is claimed:

    "Not the Creator of Universe, in Genesis 2:1-3,-but the Catholic Church can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days." (S. C. Mosna, Storia della Domenica, 1969, pp. 366-367)

    "The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." (Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, Papa, art. 2, translated)

    "The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ. The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense with the command of Christ." (Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.) Ferraris' Ecclesiastical Dictionary)

    "Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; --she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." (Rev. Stephan Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, On the Obedience Due to the Church, chap. 2, p. 174. (Imprimatur, John Cardinal McCloskey, archbishop of New York)

    "The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the Church had changed...the Sabbath into Sunday, not by command of Christ, but by its own authority." (Canon and Tradition, p. 263)

    "Is not yet too late for Protestants to redeem themselves. Will they do it?... will they indeed take the written word only, the Scripture alone, as their sole authority and their sole standard? Or will they still hold the indefensible, self contradictory, and suicidal doctrine and practice of following the authority of the Catholic church and wear the SIGN of her authority? Will they keep the Sabbath of the Lord, the seventh day, according to Scripture? Or will they keep the Sunday according to the tradition of the Catholic church." (Ibid, page 31)

    Daniel 7:25
    25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

    Describing a “little horn power” Daniel says, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:" . Paul made a similar prediction:

    2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    Paul warned that this blasphemy was already at work, and that it would come not from an outside influence, but from within the church:

    2 Thessalonians 2:7
    7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    Acts 20:28-30
    28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
    29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
    30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

    And we clearly see it makes claims that is has the authority to say these things and to make these changes....
     
  3. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    So then lets go to the next question, which is why does anyone follow its dictates on what is says it has the authority to change, and claims that this is what Christians have to follow. Here are some statements which show who churches are following and its not the Bible:

    "Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope." Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950. This Rock

    "Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
    Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

    Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
    Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday." -Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50


    "Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
    A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy;" ... Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7.

    "The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians." The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.

    ''The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.'' The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

    "All of us believe many things in regard to religion that we do not find in the Bible. For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath Day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the Church outside the Bible." The Catholic Virginian, "To Tell You The Truth,” Vol. 22, No. 49 (Oct. 3, 1947).

    "... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

    'Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'' Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

    "But since Saturday, not Sunday, is specified in the Bible, isn't it curious that non-Catholics who profess to take their religion directly from the Bible and not the Church, observe Sunday instead of Saturday? Yes, of course, it is inconsistent; but this change was made about fifteen centuries before Protestantism was born, and by that time the custom was universally observed. They have continued the custom, even though it rests upon the authority of the Catholic Church and not upon an explicit text in the Bible. That observance remains as a reminder of the Mother Church from which the non-Catholic sects broke away - like a boy running away from home but still carrying in his pocket a picture of his mother or a lock of her hair." The Faith of Millions


    "Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. "The Day of the Lord" (dies Dominica) was chosen, not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power. The day of resurrection, the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, came on the first day of the week. So this would be the new Sabbath. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy." Sentinel, Pastor's page, Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995

    'If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.' Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.

    'It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.' Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ on March 18, 1903. This Rock


    'Of course these .. quotations are exactly correct. The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit – or blame ' This Rock,The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997


    'The observance of Sunday by the Protestants is homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church.' Monsignor Louis Segur, 'Plain Talk about the Protestantism of Today';, p. 213.
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sabbath was given to ancient Israel, not to the Church!
     
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  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    So why doesn't the Pope set a date for Christ's return?
    The Pope is GOD after all. ;)
     
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  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I think he was talking about the apostate Bishop of Rome drawing Christians away from fellowship with the rest of the Church and his fellow "Overseers" (culminating in the Great Schism).
     
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  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't "Trent" the council called by the pope that attempted to assassinate Marin Luther for objecting to selling Christ as "indulgences" to pay for the political corruption within the Church of Rome where positions like "Pope" and "Bishop" were bought and sold by influential families?

    Color me unimpressed with their decision to support their 'Divine Right' to fleece the flock with impunity.
    How about one of the actual "ecumenical" councils?
    Even better, how about the BIBLE?
     
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  8. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    “Quia parvus error in principio magnus est in fine.”

    I stopped reading after your first line, as it contains two errors, one of which forms the basis of your entire objection. Hence your entire objection is based on a premise.

    1. The encyclical was written in 1884, not 1885.

    2. The Pope does not say that he holds "upon this earth the place of God Almighty..." Rather, the encyclical is addressed to "Our Venerable Brethren, all Patriarchs, Primates, Archbishops and Bishops of the Catholic World In Grace and Communion with the Apostolic See". The pope wrote...

    "But since WE HOLD upon this earth the place of God Almighty, Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the Truth, and now that Our advanced age and the bitterness of anxious cares urge Us on towards the end common to every mortal, We feel drawn to follow the example of Our Redeemer and Master, Jesus Christ, Who, when about to return to Heaven, implored of God, His Father, in earnest Prayer, that His Disciples and followers should be of one mind and of one heart: I pray . . . that they all may be one, as Thou Father in Me, and I in Thee: that they also may be one in Us. And as this Divine Prayer and Supplication does not include only the souls who then believed in Jesus Christ, but also every one of those who were henceforth to believe in Him, this Prayer holds out to Us no indifferent reason for confidently expressing Our hopes, and for making all possible endeavors in order that the men of every race and clime should be called and moved to embrace the Unity of Divine Faith."

    WE hold = We = All the bishops of the world


    I didn't bother reading the rest of your post since it was based on a false premise.


    Next time do your homework lest you continue to embarrass yourself.
     
    #8 Walpole, Feb 21, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
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  9. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    So has the 'Bishop of Rome' stopped claiming he is 'infallible', and has the 'authority' to change Gods law and times, no he is still at it. But the real issue that is being ignored is why the believers of the Reformation still are following the changes it claims it had the authority to make, that is at the heart of the matter. If you look closely at what Paul says, in his second letter to the Thessalonians, of the apostasy which would come into the church. He declared that before the return of Christ would come antichrist power, " who exalteth himself above all that is called God;" Even at that early date he saw, creeping into the church, errors in belief that would prepare the way for the false teachings to come in.

    Little by little, and then more openly as it increased in strength and gained control of believers, paganism and idol worship came into the church. The customs of heathenism began to find their way into the early Christian church and compromise and conformity to paganism was held back for a time by the fierce persecutions by the Roman Emperors. But as persecution ceased, and Christianity was accepted and entered the courts and palaces of the Emperors and Kings, the true church laid aside the humble simplicity of Christ for the pomp and pride of priests and pagan leaders and in place of the truth from God, it substituted human theories, rites and traditions.

    It started slowly, a change here a compromise there, but the then with acceptance the floodgates to apostasy were fully opened by Emperor Constantine, who tried to politically not to leave out or alienate those who practiced paganism after he claim to convert to Christianity. He declared the bishop of Rome as the enforcer of truth and forced the merger of paganism into the church, and the heathen religion now cloaked with a form of righteousness, walked into the church. Paganism, while appearing to be vanquished by the church, became the conqueror. Pagan doctrines, ceremonies, and superstitions were incorporated into the faith and worship of the professed followers of Christ.

    This compromise between paganism and Christianity resulted in the development of "the man of sin" foretold in prophecy who clearly we see opposing and exalting himself above God. So we see the changes, against what God has set, made by the "man of sin" and we just go along with it?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Rome stopped preaching and teaching the true Gospel at Council of Trent, so whatever any Pope says is suspect!
     
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  11. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Lets define it to be more clearer who the 'we' is.
    pa·pal
    /ˈpāpəl/
    adjective
    adjective: papal
    1. relating to a pope or to the papacy.
     
  12. Walpole

    Walpole Well-Known Member

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    We can use basic English 101 to easily refute your assertion.

    "But since WE hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty..."

    We = plural

    Plural, by definition, pertains to more than one. In this case, it refers to the addressees of the encyclical, which are the bishops of the Catholic world.
     
  13. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying the Pope does not qualify?
     
  14. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    But all you have to do is look in history to see who was persecuting those who would not follow its changes and 'authority' and it was ruthless. It was constant repressions and persecutions carried out by the Roman Catholic Church to force its doctrines on others, here are from some of my notes...

    The St. Thomas Christians of India were forced to accept the Roman Catholic doctrines against their will and rebelled.

    They were Sabbath-keepers, as were those who broke off communion with Rome after the Council of Chalcedon, namely the Abyssinian, the Jacobites, the Maronites, and the Armenians and the Kurds, who kept the food laws and denied confession and purgatory (Schaff-Herzog The New Encyclopædia of Religious Knowledge, art. Nestorians and Nestorianer above).

    The Abyssinian Church remained Sabbath-keeping and in Ethiopia the Jesuits tried to get the Abyssinians to accept Roman Catholicism. The Abyssinian legate at the court of Lisbon denied they kept Sabbath in imitation of the Jews, but rather in obedience to Christ and the Apostles (Geddes Church History of Ethiopia, pp. 87-88). The Jesuits influenced king Zadenghel to propose to submit to the Papacy in 1604, and prohibiting Sabbath worship under severe penalty (Geddes, ibid., p. 311 and also Gibbons Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Ch. 47).

    The Abyssinian Church remained Sabbath-keeping and in Ethiopia the Jesuits tried to get the Abyssinians to accept Roman Catholicism. The Abyssinian legate at the court of Lisbon denied they kept Sabbath in imitation of the Jews, but rather in obedience to Christ and the Apostles (Geddes Church History of Ethiopia, pp. 87-88). The Jesuits influenced king Zadenghel to propose to submit to the Papacy in 1604, and prohibiting Sabbath worship under severe penalty (Geddes, ibid., p. 311 and also Gibbons Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, Ch. 47).

    The Waldensians or Waldenses

    Lentolo is the author of the earliest history of the Waldensians and the chief authority for that of the persecution of his own times. This history was virtually unknown till in 1897 Comba called attention to a copy of it in the Berne Library (W. F. Adeney, art. Waldenses, ERE, Vol 12, p. 669).

    Benedict in his history of the Baptists says of the Waldenses: 'We have already observed from Claudius Seyessel, the popish archbishop, that one Leo was charged with originating the Waldensian heresy in the valleys, in the days of Constantine the Great. When those severe measures were emanated from the Emperor Honorius against rebaptizers [Anabaptists], they left the seat of opulence and power, and sought retreats in the country, and in the valleys of Piedmont (Italy) which last place in particular, became their retreat against imperial oppression.'

    Persecution in Bohemia and Southern Italy nearly exterminated the Churches of the Waldensians in those parts, leaving only Piedmont and the Italian valleys of the Cottian Alps, termed the Vaudois country, as the only important habitat (Adeney, p. 669) although many were scattered among the Swiss and German Protestants.

    Here is something on the Inquistion..."There was a gallows permanently in the square of every town and city and village. Railways, meetings of more than three people, and all newspapers were forbidden. All books were censored. A special tribunal sat permanently in each place to try, condemn and execute the accused. All trials were conducted in Latin. Ninety-nine percent of the accused did not understand the accusations against them. Every pope tore up the stream of petitions that came constantly asking for justice, for the franchise, for reform of the police and the prison system (see Malachi Martin The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church, Secker and Warburg, London, 1981, p. 254).
     
  15. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    Now lets look to a neutral source on the 'infallibility' of the 'Bishop of Rome'...
    Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church that states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope is preserved from the possibility of error "when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church."[1] Infallibility is, according to the New Catholic Encyclopedia, "more than a simple, de facto absence of error. It is a positive perfection, ruling out the possibility of error".[2]

    This doctrine was defined dogmatically at the First Ecumenical Council of the Vatican of 1869–1870 in the document Pastor aeternus, but had been defended before that, existing already in medieval theology and being the majority opinion at the time of the Counter-Reformation.[3]...Papal infallibility - Wikipedia

    Where does the Pope get this doctrine, its not in scripture, and you cant just declare you have the power of God which is not sanctioned.

    Well, as I was looking for what scripture says and found nothing, but came across something elsewhere on the issue, this interesting take on the Popes infallibility, interesting reading to say the least...
    "...we are responsible as Catholics to understand, not only what the Church teaches, but what the Church doesn't teach to help clear up these misconceptions. The Church teaches in a simple summary that the Holy Father, the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, as the successor to Peter and the Vicar of Christ, when he speaks as the universal teacher from the Chair of Peter in defining faith and morals does so with an infallible charism or an infallible gift through the Holy Spirit so that we can give to him the full assent of our intellect and our will, and we can hear the voice of Christ coming to us through the voice of the Pope when he is speaking in this capacity. "..Dr Scott Hahn on the Papacy | Catholic-Pages.com
     
  16. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Sorry chief. I am happy to criticize the Pope and RCC for many things it says and does, but that particular charge is almost universal to all of mankind and all of history.

    Remember the FIERY FURNACE for those that would not worship Nebuchadnezzar.
    The Jewish persecution of Christians in the Gospels and Acts.
    The Roman persecutions of Christians under Nero.
    The persecutions of Jews in the Middle Ages.
    The burning of Reformers by the RCC.
    The execution of Arminians by the Reformed.
    The drowning of Baptists by Lutherans and Presbyterians and Anglicans.
    The genocides during the break-up of Yugoslavia.
    The Isreali-Palestinean conflicts.
    The jihad against Christians in Africa.

    So "ruthless persecution" goes with "political power" and seems no respecter of Religion.
     
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  17. Hobie

    Hobie Well-Known Member

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    But this was the so called 'Christian church' persecuting Christians, not some government or group....
     
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Unlike when Paedobaptists were drowning Credobaptists?

    It seems like a distinction without a difference to me.
    (I think that I need to bow out now. It really isn't my place to defend the RCC or the Pope. You should just be honest with your criticism. As a Calvinist, that is all that I ask from others for my beliefs ... honest criticism.)
     
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  19. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Or as Queen Victoria said,"WE are not amused.

    It is used as a Royal WE.

    Just as performers say "This is our latest film" or "Our latest song."

    Your argument is ridiculous. Popes often use WE instead of "ME." It comes with claiming to be God.
    "
    Let US create man in OUR image Genesis 1:26 So God created man in HIS OWN image Genesis 1:27
     
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  20. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    The difference is that The RCC carried our its murders from its beginning (as well as its Eastern arm, The Orthodox.) It only does not do so now as is doesn't have the power. (But it did under Hitler and Mussolini.)
     
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