Is there a link?

I don't think so. Spiritual maturity has nothing to do with the translation of the Bible one uses.

What does contemporary and no amens during preaching have to do with the level of spiritual maturity?

 

I agree both comments PastorSBC.

"Amens" make a church spiritual?

We could all post examples of churches that were dead and alive regardless of their version of choice.

 

I have been to churches that use an older Bible version, and are cold as fish. I have been to churches where a newer version is used, and found them red-hot in enthusiasm in praising and worshipping God, as well as in proclaiming and spreading His Gospel.

My present pastor, a longtime friend from the days before he had ever considered the pastorate, uses the NKJV as a matter of personal preference, & has told the congregation thus, but he has also told them to use any version(s) to which God leads them.

I have been to churches where every time the pastor coughs someone says 'Amen'. Now, what does amen signify when thus used? It signifies that the"amenner" agrees with the pastor, and he's in effect saying, "Let the words the pastor just said be so." To me, it's just a symbolic thing, and an abundance or lack of 'amens' doesn't really mean anything.

However, a pastor who's been hearing a buncha amens every sermon & suddenly hears a deafening silence during a given sermon might wanna plan his next sermon with a little more care and prayer.

 

IFBChristian said:

Is there a link between the bible version a church uses and how they are spirtually? I've noticed in a couple of churches that I visited that used a modern version... they were very contemporary and there was no amens during preaching.

Living 100 years in the past and amenning are marks of belonging to a particular subculture. They are not marks of true spirituality.

 

AMEN!

 

Aside from here and there, probably not.

I can list numerous churches that use modern versions that are strictly "old" music. As far as "amen"'s during worship, I was never aware of that being tied to the use of translation. There is no shortage of Black Baptist congregation that use newer translations that "amen" every other word out of the preacher's mouth. OTOH, many IFB and other fundamentalist churches are KJVO, despite the fact that KJVOism is contrary to fundamentalism.

 

Only if you count the [snipped] churches that seem to weak conscience legalism and push easy believism.

Neither of those things are indications of strong spirituality.

[ January 19, 2006, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

Having been exposed to a lot of amens and hallelujahs when I was young, it is not hard for me to accept that vocalization in a church service. I have attended regularly only one church that did not use the KJV in the pulpit. Yet that church was also a praising and an "amennning" church. I have been in churches where tha pastor reads the KJV from the pulpit while the church seems as cold as a frozen fish.

A church can be spiritual without the members using a lot of vocalizations in the church service. But I like attending services where the people feel free to vocalize their agreement.

Does the Bible version the church uses make the church more or less spiritual? I don't think so. The members' individual relationships with God are what make the church more or less spiritual - not the Bible version the preacher is reading from.

 

Nope no link.

Amens are not a sign of spiritual growth.

I have heard amens to things that were against scripture, [snipped]

[ January 22, 2006, 02:03 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

There is a lot I could say here, but I shall refrain.

It isn't the version of the bible that makes a difference, but rather the version of the person using the bible... or, more appropriately, not using it.

Whether or not the pages say "you" or "thou" shouldn't be an issue. Nor should whether or not people are shouting and waving their hands. Both of these are external are superficial means of gauging spirituality. What is going on deep within the heart of those in the church... THAT is the guage that must be used.

Anything else is just a judgement call based on fallible human observation... and not even on the observations of what really matters.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Amens during preaching, I think is a cultural thing. Depending on where you are from and maybe the size of the church.

For example me and my wife come from an LDS background. In the Mormon church no clapping allowed defenantly no amens, no standing during songs, no lifting hands, no insterments except organ or piano. These things would not just be looked down upon as un-reverant they would flat out get you kicked out of the church.

Now I dont mind when people amen, and I am defenantly glad the Lord lead me away from the LDS church but I feel uncomforable yelling amen during church. Does this make me spirtually imature?

By the way, LDS churches are KJVO.

 

That surprises me, DeeJay, since LDS founder Joseph Smith started his own "correction" of the KJV during his lifetime. I would think the LDS heirarchy would want to use the Bible version created by the LDS founder, rather than the version Mr. Smith sought to correct.

For more information on the version created by Joseph Smith go here: Inspired Version

 

You would think, until you read it. If they used it there would be very few Mormons in the world. It adds Joseph Smith to everything. You can read about how the father, jesus and joseph smith created the world in the begining. I am serious.

Only some LDS offshoots use it, FLDS, RLDS and such. The LDS church publishes a KJV bible with select inspired translation quotes in the footnotes. They will say that it was not finished when JS died. FLDS, RLDS and the doctrine and Covenents disagree. There is a passage in either D&C or PoGP that says the inspired version is finished. You can also buy it at Deseret book. But LDS people will not look that far into their religion.

 

One of my questions to them is, if the Bible is mistranslated and Gods instruction to JS was to retranslate and he died before it was finished, why has God not instructed the several dozen prophets since to finish correcting the bible so we all can have an accurate translation?

They then change the subject.

This is why all the argument about Bible translations makes me sad. It is one of the main tools the LDS church uses to convert people. The missionaries tell people, your Bible is inaccurate and we have the Book of Mormon to clear it up.
So by causing doubt, in the mind of anybody who may be lurking, about the accuracy of a Bible translation it may be helping to turn people away from Christianity to Mormonisem.

 

IFBChristian, there are four Bible versions for sale in Japan (and several NTs). They are all translated from modern Greek texts (including the Classical Japanese Bible). You cannot buy a TR-based Japanese Bible or NT. If modern versions lead a church to be less spiritual, than Japanese churches (including every single church pastored by a KJVO missionary) don't have a chance!

What is important is the truths of the Word of God. If those truths are correctly translated in my Japanese Bible, and if your church faithfully follows the truths taught in the KJV, then our churches should be similar spiritually, should they not?

I taught for eight years in Tokyo at a Bible institute (still teach by video there) where the dean, a friend of mine of course, was KJVO. He taught his Japanese students in one class, "God has preserved His Word in English in the KJV. The proof of that is that I was saved and called to preach through the KJV." (I call this the "argument from blessing" in this debate, and it is a fallacy.) This then became a test question. The students answered, "The Lord has preserved His Word in the English KJV, which we know since Missionary R. was saved and called to preach through the KJV. However, we were saved and called to preach through the Shinkaiyaku Bible, so we will use that!" The Shinkaiyaku is a conservative Japanese version based on Nestle's Greek text and the translation principles of the NASV.

Guess what? Those young Japanese men are today pastors, and are all godly, fundamental men who love the Lord and preach the Word! I saw several of them when I went back to Tokyo to preach in June, and one of them gave me a big hug (something Japanese simply don't do) and thanked me for my ministry!