1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Is Ukraine the Sacrificial Lamb

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by OldRegular, Mar 15, 2015.

  1. Lewis

    Lewis Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    104
    The story that you cite was written in 2010, right after Mr. Sutyagin had been released from a Russian prison. His situation has improved quite a bit since then. He is a well educated Russian who has sources of information inside Russia, and is of great value to intelligence agencies.


    There have been numerous images of Russian troops and armor crossing into Ukraine, which the die-hard pro-Soviet types will never accept. Here is just one:
    "It was a surprising confession. In an interview with the opposition Russian newspaper, Nowaja Gaseta, (from Monday, March 2) a wounded Russian tank operator confirmed what many have long assumed: That contracted Russian soldiers are fighting alongside the separatists in Eastern Ukraine against the Ukrainian army."LINK
    [​IMG]
     
    #61 Lewis, Mar 23, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2015
  2. Lewis

    Lewis Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    104
    "Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov, who was murdered on Saturday, was preparing to publish a report detailing the presence of Russian soldiers in the east Ukraine conflict.

    According to his fellow opposition party member Ilya Yashin, Boris Nemtsov had been compiling a file of evidence about allegations that Russia’s troops are backing separatist forces in Ukraine’s eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions, known collectively as Donbas, before he was killed."
     
  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    That's the same story we got about the "Syrian Observatory For Human Rights". Big global organization, right?. What could be more credible than that?

    Problem. The "Syrian Observatory For Human Rights" turns out, is one man. An anti Assad Sunni Muslim living in an apartment in Coventry drawing a paycheck from an "un-named" European country.

    Fox News has pages of articles in it's archives citing this guy as a "source" and none of them give any clue as to who or what he is. Once upon a time "joutnalists" vetted their sources. Not so anymore.


    Then show them. If what you say is true then there shouldn't be any problem.


    "It was a surprising confession. In an interview with the opposition Russian newspaper, Nowaja Gaseta, (from Monday, March 2) a wounded Russian tank operator confirmed what many have long assumed: That contracted Russian soldiers are fighting alongside the separatists in Eastern Ukraine against the Ukrainian army."LINK
    [​IMG]

    You know these are Russian troops how? Can you identify them from their uniforms? Can you tell me where this picture was taken? When it was taken? By whom it was taken?

    WASHINGTON — A delegation consisting of Ukrainian members of parliament, a paramilitary leader, and one Georgetown professor gave a senator’s office photos purportedly of the Russian military invading Ukraine that were later debunked.

    Several photos allegedly showing the Russian military in eastern Ukraine that ran on the Washington Free Beacon on Tuesday were quickly shown to actually be photos from other conflicts, some from years earlier. A spokesperson for Oklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe told the Free Beacon that the office had procured the photos from a “Ukrainian delegation” in December.

    Inhofe’s office provided BuzzFeed News the list of names of the people who provided the misleading photos:

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/heres-the-ukrainian-delegation-that-gave-misleading-photos-t#.oq2gAbYvQ

    Tell me Lewis if you were to catch someone lying and providing false evidence to you, would you trust anything they said or produced after that without asking for further verification?

    Die hard Russophobic neocons wouldn't. They just believe what ever the "good guys" tell them. Maybe that's why they keep falling for the same old lies and Washington/neocon warmongering propaganda over and over and over again.

    Afghainstan? (Soviets vs Al Qaeda aka the "good guys" then) Same old lies. Same old script. Demonize, sanction, send weapons to proxies, invade.

    Kosovo? Same old lies. Same old script. Demonize, sanction, send weapons to proxies, invade.

    Iraq? Same old lies. Same old script. Demonize, sanction, send weapons to proxies, invade.

    Libya? Same old lies. Same old script. Demonize, sanction, send weapons to proxies, invade.

    Syria? Same old lies. Same old script. Demonize, sanction, send weapons to proxies, invade.

    Ukraine? Same old lies. Same old script. Demonize, sanction, send weapons to proxies, invade.

    Next up? Same old lies. Same old script. Demonize, sanction, send weapons to proxies, invade.

    The neocons are so confident no one will notice that they are recycling the same old lies and same old scare tactics and the same old script for every intervention they want to involve us in all they ever do is change the name of the "bad guy". It's to the point now where it's like watching the same James Bond movie over and over and over and the only part of the script that ever changes is the name and face of the "bad guy".

    How many times do you have to watch the same movie before you figure out it's the same movie all over again?
     
    #63 poncho, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2015
  4. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Just weeks after a European-brokered ceasefire greatly reduced the violence in Ukraine, the US House of Representatives today takes a big step toward re-igniting — and expanding — the bloody civil war.

    A Resolution, “Calling on the President to provide Ukraine with military assistance to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity,” stealthily made its way to the House Floor today without having been debated in the relevant House Committees and without even being given a bill number before appearing on the Floor!

    Now titled H. Res. 162, the bill demands that President Obama send lethal military equipment to the US-backed government in Kiev and makes it clear that the weapons are to be used to take military action to return Crimea and parts of eastern Ukraine to Kiev’s rule.

    Congress wants a war in Ukraine and will not settle for a ceasefire!

    The real world effect of this Resolution must be made clear: The US Congress is giving Kiev the green light to begin a war with Russia, with the implicit guarantee of US backing. This is moral hazard on steroids and could well spark World War III.

    The Resolution conveniently ignores that the current crisis in Ukraine was ignited by the US-backed coup which overthrew the elected government of Viktor Yanukovych. The secession of Crimea and eastern Ukraine were a reaction to the illegal coup engineered by US officials such as Victoria Nuland and Geoff Pyatt. Congress instead acts as if one morning the Russians woke up and decided to invade Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

    There is no mention at all of US backing for the coup — or even that a coup took place!

    Indeed, a read of the Resolution shows it is revisionism par excellence:

    Continue . . . https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/congress-demands-war-in-ukraine/
     
  5. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is amazing how many people here on the BB like Lew Rockwell and #botox and forget that Ukraine gave up nukes for independence. Lew Rockwell don't make no sense--you'd think that he'd move to Russia like Snowden to escape the repression of DC for the freedom of Moscow--go, Lew.
     
  6. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Just can't help demonizing people can ya? Them neocons sure got you conditioned but good.

    But then I guess if you ain't got no evidence to back your claims that's all you can do is demonize people. Go CMG!
     
    #66 poncho, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2015
  7. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What about the Ukraine surrender of their nukes--don't want to talk about that?

    Rockwell is entirely wrong about the legislative process. Congress does not have to act upon a bill in committee and may legally send it back to the floor with no comment and no hearing. That is normal legislative process but I doubt that Rockwell even knows that. He seems enamored of #botox but then so are a lot of posters on the BB.
     
  8. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    What about showing me that evidence I've been asking you to provide for over a year now--don't want to talk about that?

    Oh and my status here and what Hillary and Lew says and Ukraine's nukes ain't got nothin to do with it. Deflections and distractions ain't evidence.

    Quit trying to weasel your way out of it by demonizing people and deflecting and provide the evidence I asked for. You made the claim so the burden of proof falls on YOU, and only YOU.

    Unless of course you can provide an official Baptist Board wavier signed by all the mods stating that you are a special case and don't have to provide evidence that shows your claims are accurate and true like everyone else here is expected to do.
     
    #68 poncho, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2015
  9. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So you agree that Lew Rockwell doesn't know what he is talking about and you agree that a lot of other people here on the BB agree with you that #botox is a freedom fighter?
     
  10. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    [​IMG]

    But I don't agree. To me they're just the words of someone trying to weasel their way out of something.
     
    #70 poncho, Mar 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2015
  11. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    22,050
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Someone said that Putin has no soul--do you think that Putin sold his soul to Satan?
     
  12. Lewis

    Lewis Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    104
    That's an interesting story but has no relevance. The Royal United Services Institute for Defense and Security Studies was founded in 1831. The president of the institute is the Duke of Kent. It won Prospect Magazine's Think Tank of the Year Award 2008. Dr. Sutyagin is a fellow at that institute.

    Oh, you mean like Alex Jones? He has been talking for years about how the US government is about to imprison true patriots and bring about cruel martial law, or how the US was about to invade Iran at any minute now. Hasn't happened.

    Here is video of Russian armor driving through the Donetsk region of Ukraine.

    Here is the way that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine, as told by Lt. Manas Mambetov:
    "In August 2014, Manas Mambetov, a senior lieutenant in the Kyrgyz Army reserves, arrived in eastern Ukraine on a moral quest to fight "fascists." A week ago, he returned home, accompanying the sealed coffins of two fellow Kyrgyz soldiers and disillusioned by his experience.
    Mambetov, who asked that his real name not be used, says he fought with regular Russian military personnel around Luhansk.
    "These aren't conscript soldiers," Mambetov says, adding that they were "battle-ready units" who fought in the wars in Chechnya and in Georgia's separatist South Ossetia region.
    "Most of them are contract soldiers. From time to time, they are sent in and then pulled out again. But they leave without their heavy equipment. While they are there, they train the separatists, insurgents, leave them their weapons, and return."
     
  13. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Gee that all sounds real impressive.

    Do you actually know what a think tank is, how it is funded, who it's experts are and what it's function is?

    You can find out more by CLICKING HERE

    CLICK HERE for some examples of other think tanks.

    Are you familiar with the term "fascism"? I know there's been a bunch of arguments over what fascism is and what it looks like but boiled down to the bare essentials fascism in nothing more than the merger of government and corporate power.

    Can you think of a closer relationship today than that between corporations, their think tanks and government?

    Does it not stand to reason that a corporate sponsored think tank would do it's best to keep it's corporate sponsors happy by advocating government policies that serve it's corporate sponsor's interests regardless of how those policies may effect everyone else? And who are the Washington politician's biggest campaign donors again? Corporations. Imagine that.

    Think about it. How long would Walmart and McDonalds sponsor La Raza as they do SEE THIS if La Raza wasn't advocating government policy that benefited Walmart and McDonalds?

    This is rule by corporation. Government is no longer at the top of the power structure. The global financiers and corporations are.

    I know the corporate sponsored talking heads on TV and within those think tanks tell us this is a crazy idea. But why wouldn't they tell us that? Telling us that they are there to serve their corporate sponsors interests over everyone else's wouldn't be very smart if they wanted to keep those millions and billions of dollars worth of corporate donations and advertising money filling their coffers.

    Again. This is rule by corporation. Government is no longer at the top of the power structure. The global financiers and corporations are.

    Who's interests does RUSI serve? Your's, the people of Ukraine or it's corporate sponsors?

    This is another "report" written by a well known corporate sponsored think tank. The Council On Foreign Relations.

    http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/141769/john-j-mearsheimer/why-the-ukraine-crisis-is-the-wests-fault

    Notice how it has the same impressive sounding name and panel of "experts" but this report tells a totally different story doesn't it?

    Have you by any chance taken the time to read the NDAA?

    If you haven't you should. In it congress has given the president the authority to arrest you without charge, incarcerate you indefinitely and/or execute you without a trial. Think about that.

    DHS has been buying up billions of rounds of ammo. The police are being militarized and outfitted with armored vehicles and other implements of war.

    The NSA is tracking and tracing our every move and recording our communications.

    All in the name of fighting "extremism". No not "terrorism" that was yesterday's pretext. Today it's "extremism". According to the SPLC and other "think tanks" you and I and everyone on this board qualify as "extremists".

    The city of Boston witnessed what martial law looks like. But it cheered, USA! USA! USA! While the police went house to house violating everyone's constitutional rights. USA! USA! USA! Texas is witnessing it now with a military "drill".

    How many of these "drills" does it take to condition the population into accepting this as a "normal" part of life?

    Then there's the government "snitch on yer neighbor" campaign. "If you see something, say something". And Obama and his UN buddies want our guns and ammo something fierce.

    I don't know what martial law looks like in your mind but the system we're living under today ain't that far off. So I ask you. Who's crazier the guy that notices all this happening around him and points it out even is his "predictions" haven't come to fruition yet or the guy that says "it's not happening the other guy is crazy"?

    As far as Iran goes, here's the attack plan. Notice it's written by a corporate sponsored think tank. Which Path To Persia Imagine that.

    And you can say for absolute certain this is what the Daily Mail claims it is right?

    In other words, you can identify the tanks as belonging to the Russian military instead of the Ukrainian military who has received military equipment from Russia such as Russian tanks for a long time.

    You can name the location where this video was taken, who it was taken by and when it was taken. Right? Okay. Then do it.

    Radio Free Europe? Really? You do understand that Radio Free Europe is an old OSS/CIA operation created for the express purpose of spreading "western" propaganda in Europe right?

    Thursday, January 29, 2015 Ukraine General Viktor Muzhenko admits there are no Russian troops.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNx2DvY3qaw

    Why would a general who has been fought to a stand still by "Russian separatists" lie about this? Seems to me if he were going to lie he'd do it in a way that made himself look good as in "I can't beat these upstart rebels with the whole Ukrainian military under my command because there are Russian troops by the thousands fighting with them", instead of "I can't beat these upstart rebels fighting for their lives with the whole Ukrainian military under my command because they are better fighters than the very young and very old Ukrainians we force into service that would rather be home tending their garden than fighting and dying so Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk can secure a 17 billion dollar IMF loan".
     
    #73 poncho, Mar 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2015
  14. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    I don't know, maybe. I have wondered if the neocons who's unnecessary military adventures that have caused the death and displacement of millions in several countries around the world in a few short decades could do what they have done without $elling their $oul to $atan.

    I take it you're still working on getting all the Baptist Board mods to sign that waver releasing you from having to prove your claims as everyone else here is expected to do.

    I'm curious what is your sales pitch to the mods anyway? I mean what are you saying to try and convince them you are a special case and shouldn't have to live by the same standards you expect others to live by?
     
    #74 poncho, Mar 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2015
  15. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    US House Votes 348-48 To Arm Ukraine

    Russia Warns Lethal Aid Will "Explode The Whole Situation"

    Yesterday, in a vote that largely slid under the radar, the House of Representatives passed a resolution urging Obama to send lethal aid to Ukraine, providing offensive, not just "defensive" weapons to the Ukraine army - the same insolvent, hyperinflating Ukraine which, with a Caa3/CC credit rating, last week started preparations to issue sovereign debt with a US guarantee, in essence making it a part of the United States (something the US previously did as a favor to Egypt before the Muslim Brotherhood puppet regime was swept from power by the local army).

    The resolution passed with broad bipartisan support by a count of 348 to 48.

    According to DW, the measure urges Obama to provide Ukraine with "lethal defensive weapon systems" that would better enable Ukraine to defend its territory from "the unprovoked and continuing aggression of the Russian Federation."

    "Policy like this should not be partisan," said House Democrat Eliot Engel, the lead sponsor of the resolution. "That is why we are rising today as Democrats and Republicans, really as Americans, to say enough is enough in Ukraine."

    Engel, a New York Democrat, has decided that he knows better than Europe what is the best option for Ukraine's people - a Europe, and especially Germany, which has repeatedly said it rejects a push to give western arms to the Ukraine army, and warned that Russia under President Vladimir Putin has become "a clear threat to half century of American commitment to an investment in a Europe that is whole, free and at peace. A Europe where borders are not changed by force."

    This war has left thousands of dead, tens of thousands wounded, a million displaced, and has begun to threaten the post-Cold War stability of Europe," Engel said.

    Odd, perhaps the US state department should have thought of that in a little over a year ago when Victoria Nuland was plotting how to most effectively put her puppet government in charge of Kiev and how to overthrow the lawfully elected president in a US-sponsored coup.

    Then again, one glance at the Rep. Engel's career donors provides some explanation for his tenacity to start another armed conflict and to escalate what he himself defines as a cold war into a warm one.

    Continue . . . http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-24/us-house-votes-348-48-arm-ukraine-russia-warns-lethal-aid-will-explode-whole-situati
     
  16. Lewis

    Lewis Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    104
    And yet you quote that particular think tank when it supports your position, post #13 in this thread. You may quote your experts, other posters may quote different ones.

    Here other Russian soldiers decribes how Russian forces are being used in Ukraine:
    "A journalist from the Russian newspaper Kommersant met several young Russian soldiers in Debaltseve who told him they had come from the same mechanised infantry unit after commanders appealed for volunteers.
    "Their commanders did not oppose their going," the journalist reported, "on the contrary, they welcomed their enthusiasm, explaining to the soldiers why it was necessary for them to go to those very areas to protect their homeland."
    Another Russian paper, Novaya Gazeta, interviewed a badly burned tank crewman in Donetsk hospital who said he had been serving with the 5th Independent Tank Brigade in Siberia when ordered on "exercises", which all the soldiers involved had understood meant they were deploying to eastern Ukraine.
    Since last August, when the scale of this increased considerably, the Russian Soldiers' Mothers Committee and other human rights groups have published details of dead soldiers being returned for burial in Russia.
    Open Russia, a group funded by Kremlin opponent Mikhail Khodorkovsky, has compiled evidence of 276 Russian soldiers killed there up to late January…

    That Russian officers are providing the brains as well as co-ordination behind the Donetsk and Luhansk separatist forces became clearer last November, when Lt Gen Alexander Lentsov, deputy commander of Moscow's ground forces, appeared in eastern Ukraine."
     
  17. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    No Lewis, I quoted it because what it says in that article lines up with the bulk of the evidence.

    I don't have a position. You may find hundreds of articles that tells you what you want to hear. I know I can find hundreds of articles claiming Russia invaded Ukraine. Like the one you posted. I can also find a bunch of articles claiming Saddam had an active nuclear weapons program when in fact he didn't but all the corporate new networks claimed he did anyway.

    Same goes for Syria. I can find "mainstream" articles claiming Assad gassed his own people, when in fact it was Washington's pet proxies that used the poison gas.

    If as you keep claiming, "Russia has invaded Ukraine and Crimea" there would no doubt be ample evidence of that and you should have no trouble providing it.

    What would that evidence look like?

    If Russia were to invade Ukraine tomorrow morning, it would probably look something like this by Sunday afternoon. . .

    1. Ukrainian artillery fell silent almost immediately. They are no longer shelling residential districts of Donetsk and Lugansk. This is because their locations had been pinpointed prior to the operation, and by Thursday afternoon they were completely wiped out using air attacks, artillery and ground-based rocket fire, as the first order of business. Local residents are overjoyed that their horrible ordeal is finally at an end.

    2. The look of military activity on the ground in Donetsk and Lugansk has changed dramatically. Whereas before it involved small groups of resistance fighters, the Russians operate in battalions of 400 men and dozens of armored vehicles, followed by convoys of support vehicles (tanker trucks, communications, field kitchens, field hospitals and so on). The flow of vehicles in and out is non-stop, plainly visible on air reconnaissance and satellite photos. Add to that the relentless radio chatter, all in Russian, which anyone who wants to can intercept, and the operation becomes impossible to hide.

    3. The Ukrainian military has promptly vanished. Soldiers and officers alike have taken off their uniforms, abandoned their weapons, and are doing their best to blend in with the locals. Nobody thought the odds of the Ukrainian army against the Russians were any good. Ukraine's only military victory against Russia was at the battle of Konotop in 1659, but at the time Ukraine was allied with the mighty Khanate of Crimea, and, you may have noticed, Crimea is not on Ukraine's side this time around.

    4. There are Russian checkpoints everywhere. Local civilians are allowed through, but anyone associated with a government, foreign or domestic, is detained for questioning. A filtration system has been set up to return demobilized Ukrainian army draftees to their native regions, while the volunteers and the officers are shunted to pretrial detention centers, to determine whether they had ordered war crimes to be committed.

    5. Most of Ukraine's border crossings are by now under Russian control. Some have been reinforced with air defense and artillery systems and tank battalions, to dissuade NATO forces from attempting to stage an invasion. Civilians and humanitarian goods are allowed through. Businessmen are allowed through once they fill out the required forms (which are in Russian).

    6. Russia has imposed a no-fly zone over all of Ukraine. All civilian flights have been cancelled. There is quite a crowd of US State Department staffers, CIA and Mossad agents, and Western NGO people stuck at Borispol airport in Kiev. Some are nervously calling everyone they know on their satellite phones. Western politicians are demanding that they be evacuated immediately, but Russian authorities want to hold onto them until their possible complicity in war crimes has been determined.

    7. The usual Ukrainian talking heads, such as president Poroshenko, PM Yatsenyuk and others, are no longer available to be interviewed by Western media. Nobody quite knows where they are. There are rumors that they have already fled the country. Crowds have stormed their abandoned residences, and were amazed to discover that they were all outfitted with solid gold toilets. Nor are the Ukrainian oligarchs anywhere to be found, except for the warlord Igor Kolomoisky, who was found in his residence, abandoned by his henchmen, dead from a heart attack. (Contributed by the Saker.)

    Continue . . . http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/0...ussia-has.html

    Do you see any of that on Fox News, CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS?

    If the Russians were to "invade" Ukraine and Crimea there would be no doubt what so ever about it Lewis.

    They wouldn't sneak in there in the middle of the night and hide behind trees, they'd go in and take out the Ukraine military in no uncertain terms. It would be the Russian version of "shock and awe" and it would be all over your TV screen for weeks. Washington and the corporate media would plaster satellite images of tanks and troop movements and images of Ukrainian planes blown to bits and big craters where Ukraine's military encampments used to be across your TV screen 24/7 for weeks.

    But we don't see any of that. All we have is Washington and the corporate media's word on it, and they've been caught lying before Lewis.

    What they claim doesn't matter it's what they can prove and so far all they've proven is you guys will keep believing the same old lies and propaganda over and over and over again.



    __________________
     
    #77 poncho, Mar 27, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2015
  18. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    You haven't answered any of my questions Lewis. In the spirit of debate I've done my best to answer your's. Shouldn't you in the same spirit answer my questions?

    I've compiled all my questions to you below.


    Do you actually know what a think tank is, how it is funded, who it's experts are and what it's function is?

    Are you familiar with the term "fascism"?

    Can you think of a closer relationship today than that between corporations, their think tanks and government?

    Does it not stand to reason that a corporate sponsored think tank would do it's best to keep it's corporate sponsors happy by advocating government policies that serve it's corporate sponsor's interests regardless of how those policies may effect everyone else?

    And who are the Washington politician's biggest campaign donors again?

    How long would Walmart and McDonalds sponsor La Raza as they do SEE THIS if La Raza wasn't advocating government policy that benefited Walmart and McDonalds?

    I know the corporate sponsored talking heads on TV and within those think tanks tell us this is a crazy idea. But why wouldn't they tell us that?

    Who's interests does RUSI serve?

    Your's, the people of Ukraine or it's corporate sponsors?

    Notice how it has the same impressive sounding name and panel of "experts" but this report tells a totally different story doesn't it?

    Have you by any chance taken the time to read the NDAA?

    How many of these "drills" does it take to condition the population into accepting this as a "normal" part of life?

    Who's crazier the guy that notices all this happening around him and points it out even is his "predictions" haven't come to fruition yet or the guy that says "it's not happening the other guy is crazy"?

    And you can say for absolute certain this is what the Daily Mail claims it is right?

    Radio Free Europe? Really?

    You do understand that Radio Free Europe is an old OSS/CIA operation created for the express purpose of spreading "western" propaganda in Europe right?

    Why would a general who has been fought to a stand still by "Russian separatists" lie about this?

    What would that evidence look like?

    Do you see any of that on Fox News, CNN, ABC, NBC or CBS?



    Will these questions remain unanswered?
     
    #78 poncho, Mar 28, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2015
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2004
    Messages:
    19,657
    Likes Received:
    128
    Looks as though my questions will un-surprisingly go un-answered.

    Moving on . . .

    The U.S.’news’ media are so censored and controlled, so that even America’s ‘media watchdog’ organizations — mediamatters.org and fair.org on the left; and aim.org and mrc.org on the right — have hidden from the American public President Barack Obama’s Ukrainian coup in February 2014 that violently overthrew Ukraine’s democratically elected President and replaced him with a Ukrainian nazi (racist-fascist) rabidly eliminationist anti-Russian, police-state regime in Kiev, which, ever since America’s coup there, has been ethnically cleansing the Ukrainian Donbass region that had voted 90% for the man, Viktor Yanukovych, whom the Obama Administration overthrew. None of this is reported in the U.S. ‘news’ media — and America’s ‘media watchdog’ organizations hide the media’s hiding of it, though these events could bring on a nuclear war with Russia, which is America’s real target in Ukraine, right next door to Russia.

    On 14 January 2015, I headlined “The Most-Censored News Story of 2014 Was ___What___?” and reported that, after an investigation, I had found that, by far, the most-censored news story of 2014 in America was Obama’s coup and U.S.-supported ethnic-cleansing in Ukraine. Links were provided there to videos of the the U.S.-backed massacre in the Trade Unions Building in Odessa on 2 May 2014, and the following ethnic cleansing in the Donbass region. However, the U.S. even sponsors firebombings of Donbass in order to get rid of the residents there, and our ‘media watchdogs’ are even silent about the ’news’ being silent about that. And, here is a good video of America’s Ukrainian coup, which overthrew Yanukovych. Here is more about that coup.

    Continue . . . http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/americas-media-watchdogs-hide-u-s-s-ukrainian-nazification-ethnic-cleansing.html
     
  20. Lewis

    Lewis Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2013
    Messages:
    863
    Likes Received:
    104
    You misquote me. I said that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine and Crimea, aiding separatists, while their government denies that they are doing so. I have posted links that support this. Of course, they do not agree with your point of view and you brush them off.

    Putin has nationalized the majority of media in Russia, and in some cases has caused his opponents to literally vanish from TV programs, air-brushed out except for a leg remaining here or there. An alarming number of journalists and opposition leaders there have been murdered or died under mysterious circumstances, most recently, Boris Nemtsov, who was reported to have been preparing to release evidence of Russian troops operating in east Ukraine.-
    "A close ally of murdered Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov says he is "totally sceptical" that the two men charged organized his killing.

    "The trigger man will be blamed, while those who actually ordered the killing will go free," Ilya Yashin, co-founder of Mr Nemtsov's party, said on Sunday. "The investigators' nonsensical theory about Islamist motives in the killing suits the Kremlin and takes [President] Putin out of the firing line,"


    Recall Alexander Litvinenko, an outspoken critic of Putin who died a slow death by polonium poisoning.

    So it is no surprise that little news of their involvement is coming out of Russia.

    Recall that In 2009, Putin said, “It’s a crime when someone only begins talking about the separation of Russia and the Ukraine”.

    Consider that in 2014 Putin asked for, and received permission from his parliament to use military force in Ukraine.

    Most importantly, the great majority of UN member states have opposed Putin's annexation of Crimea and large portions of Ukraine as illegal. By a vote of 100 to 11:
    "By a recorded vote of 100 in favour to 11 against, with 58 abstentions, the Assembly adopted a resolution titled “Territorial integrity of Ukraine”, calling on States, international organizations and specialized agencies not to recognize any change in the status of Crimea or the Black Sea port city of Sevastopol, and to refrain from actions or dealings that might be interpreted as such.

    Today’s debate preceding the vote offered the first opportunity for the broader United Nations membership to air their view on the Crimea question. Many said the referendum had contravened international law, the United Nations Charter and Ukraine’s Constitution, emphasizing that they would neither recognize it nor the Russian Federation’s subsequent illegal annexation of Crimea."
     
Loading...