It's that time of year again . . .

[Mexdeaf]

Need...yes. Recreation, you will have to provide Scripture that animals are ours to use and abuse at whim since we were given dominion over them, particularly for something like just wanting a rug in front of your fireplace.

I assume you own no pets, and that if you do they did not require training. And the "rug in front of the fireplace" is a red herring. It's what's left-over after you eat the meat. Why not put it to good use?

 

[webdog]

I assume you own no pets, and that if you do they did not require training. And the "rug in front of the fireplace" is a red herring. It's what's left-over after you eat the meat. Why not put it to good use?

It's not my red herring, Benjamin mentioned it.

Don't really know what you are talking about concerning owning pets (speaking of red herring), but I have a dog, cat, lizard and frogs.

 

[Aaron]

This is going to come across as harsh, but who cares what you think?

From the responses on this thread, it seems almost everyone cares what I think.

No one on here is going to answer to you on Judgment Day, and quite frankly you're beginning to sound like a KJVO- no matter how much truth you are presented with to the contrary, you're not going to change your mind about your unfounded "truth" that if anyone ENJOYS hunting it must be sin.

*sigh* Let's try it once more.

The question was, is killing an animal for sport moral? That's a yes or no question, and if folks could just be honest about the fact that the climax of a hunting trip is the thrill of the kill, we could get on with debating the actual question. Say, "Yes, I enjoy shooting animals, and, yes, it's moral." I would respect that. But what I keep getting is folks belching a bunch of subterfuge saying, "It isn't the kill itself, it's the hunt, it's the camaraderie, it's the great outdoors, it's eating the kill, blah, blah, blah."

Why is that? It's because they know the implications are are trying to avoid them. I can't be snowed in this subject, but ya'll keep tryin'.

P.S. You ever tried to eat a photograph? YUCK!!

What one does with the carcass isn't the question. The question is, is hunting for sport moral?

 

[padredurand]

The question is, is hunting for sport moral?

YES. :thumbsup:

 

[Aaron]

I'll add another assumption. I assume you loathed the killing part.

I was indifferent actually. Snapping chicken necks is rather inglorious work.

 

[tinytim]

is killing an animal for sport moral?

YES.

Is Aaron God? NO.
Does Aaron think he knows others intentions? YES

Is Aaron going to be held accountable for playing God? YES.

 

[abcgrad94]

It seems a lot of the argument is over want and need of killing an animal. For instance, if I could hunt cows I might enjoy the adventure although the whole process would involve some work, I would have need for the meat and rather or not I could buy it is insignificant, the animal is there for my taking and my God given right to do so.

Now what if I want (have a need for) a bear skin rug in front of the fire place? The animal is still there for me to take and I still have a right to do so, rather or not I’m going to eat it the meat. No guilt or conflict if that is what I choose to have rather or not one wants to call the “adventure” a “blood sport” and feel pity for the animal. Their problem of judging me, not mine.

God had the OT people sacrifice animals to Him which did not even pay for sin; it was faith that saved them. It was a symbolic action which involved killing an animal that wasn’t even really for His pleasure and the only real need was to for man to be obedient in faith. Was God immoral to have men kill animals just to teach them something while not taking pity on the animals?

So what if a man feels the need to have trophy heads and stuffed animals all over his home to display his machoism and love of the hunt? Well, to me that is a bit overboard and raises the question of “What if everyone did it?” Personally, it wouldn’t have the effect to make me feel macho and would maybe question that need but more so I would have to weigh the waste in doing so in that regard. OTOH, if I had killed a grizzly that attacked me in the woods with a Bowie knife I would feel that I earned that trophy, and display it while giving the glory to God.

The point is the animals were given to us to fulfill our wants and needs and we were given dominion over them. The only time I see a problem or shame with taking them if is it is done irresponsibly or selfishly in that it deprived others. I would be careful in judging another man for taking pleasure in the God-given right to kill and use the animals whatever their need. I would be more concerned about judging my brother to be immoral in the matter than I would over the welfare and having pity over the animal.

Careful there, you're on the verge of (getting accused for) going off topic and jumping to conclusions!:laugh:

Excellent post, by the way. Some can't see that a judgemental attitude and putting down fellow believers is sin, yet they worry about putting down an animal. Amazing!

 

[Benjamin]

Need...yes. Recreation, you will have to provide Scripture that animals are ours to use and abuse at whim since we were given dominion over them, particularly for something like just wanting a rug in front of your fireplace.

I don’t have to give you scripture specifically about recreation to know that if an individual wants to use his right of dominion (which we do have scripture on and is defined by ruling over and taking from the earth, to subdue and increase with) for recreational purposes that one shouldn’t be judging another’s morality concerning the matter of his rights if it is being done responsibly. That said, personally I wouldn’t do it only for recreation because of my thoughts about reponsibility, but neither would I judge another who does while considering such recreation a want or need, even if that need is for trophies and decoration.

As for the bearskin rug, you would be wise not to judge me for taking what is mine to take, should I choose to take it. You would do well to study these rights of man given by God in context rather than being conformed to the ideas/sentiments of this world. It even says a tree is given for meat; would you also judge a man if he were to cut down a living tree to make a chair to sit in when he could have sat on the ground??? What if he left the rest of the tree to rot does that make a difference? If not I’d caution you to be careful about putting your animal rights sentiments over and above treating your brother’s freedoms of dominion with love and respect before you continue in this judging others rights and morality on such matters as if they wanted a rug.

How about a picture frame compared to a mounted head for decoration? Show me in scripture where animals are more privileged than anything else we have dominion over.

Genesis 1:26-30
(26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
(29) And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
(30) And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

 

[Benjamin]

Anyone one want to take me grizzly bear hunting sometime if I get a windfall to pay for it? :laugh:

 

[KenH]

The question is, is hunting for sport moral?

Absolutely, positively not.

 

[TC]

Supply where I alluded to what you accuse me of or retract it.

I have already quoted your own words. I have nothing to retract. Just so you can't say I have unjustly accused you of anything, I will post it again.

I see no purpose in hunting in this age. Meat and food are available every mile in the US. To claim it is done for the meat alone is an excuse, IMO to cover up the thrill of killing an animal unnecessarily.

 

[blackbird]

I would challenge all of our "Nay" sayers to read the book of Genesis beginning in chapter 25--Esau was "a cunning hunter, a man of the field"--I imagine he'd go to his version of Outdoor World to buy the latest in camo and decoys--he'd get his boots on and sign his yearly "All Game" license amd head for the woods and he'd like it and his daddy liked it

Who Esau was what God made him to be and what he did with his personality was not a sin-What Jacob did in falsely impersonating his brother was

Is hunting and fishing moral--sure is!

 

[webdog]

I would challenge all of our "Nay" sayers to read the book of Genesis beginning in chapter 25--Esau was "a cunning hunter, a man of the field"--I imagine he'd go to his version of Outdoor World to buy the latest in camo and decoys--he'd get his boots on and sign his yearly "All Game" license amd head for the woods and he'd like it and his daddy liked it

Who Esau was what God made him to be and what he did with his personality was not a sin-What Jacob did in falsely impersonating his brother was

Is hunting and fishing moral--sure is!

I wouldn't think Esau would be a good example for a believer to follow in anything...but to each their own.

 

[webdog]

I have already quoted your own words. I have nothing to retract. Just so you can't say I have unjustly accused you of anything, I will post it again.

...and where did I call anyone a liar (your accusation) there?

 

[webdog]

I don’t have to give you scripture specifically about recreation to know that if an individual wants to use his right of dominion (which we do have scripture on and is defined by ruling over and taking from the earth, to subdue and increase with) for recreational purposes that one shouldn’t be judging another’s morality concerning the matter of his rights if it is being done responsibly. That said, personally I wouldn’t do it only for recreation because of my thoughts about reponsibility, but neither would I judge another who does while considering such recreation a want or need, even if that need is for trophies and decoration.

As for the bearskin rug, you would be wise not to judge me for taking what is mine to take, should I choose to take it. You would do well to study these rights of man given by God in context rather than being conformed to the ideas/sentiments of this world. It even says a tree is given for meat; would you also judge a man if he were to cut down a living tree to make a chair to sit in when he could have sat on the ground??? What if he left the rest of the tree to rot does that make a difference? If not I’d caution you to be careful about putting your animal rights sentiments over and above treating your brother’s freedoms of dominion with love and respect before you continue in this judging others rights and morality on such matters as if they wanted a rug.

How about a picture frame compared to a mounted head for decoration? Show me in scripture where animals are more privileged than anything else we have dominion over.

Genesis 1:26-30
(26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
(29) And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
(30) And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Like I thought...nothing.

 

[webdog]

YES.

Is Aaron God? NO.
Does Aaron think he knows others intentions? YES

Is Aaron going to be held accountable for playing God? YES.

Tim, nobody is playing God...and you here admit killing for the sheer enjoyment of fun is moral. I'm sure you can provide the Scripture Benjamin could not.

 

[webdog]

Careful there, you're on the verge of (getting accused for) going off topic and jumping to conclusions!:laugh:

Excellent post, by the way. Some can't see that a judgemental attitude and putting down fellow believers is sin, yet they worry about putting down an animal. Amazing!

How is it judgmental? Is it putting down a fellow believer by stating they shouldn't pull legs off insects as well? I'm highly shocked at the "ho, hum" attitude so many on this thread are taking in regards to death and enjoyment in it. Shocking, actually

 

[Johnv]

We should ask the question outright. Is there anyone here who thinks there's nothing wrong with pulling the legs off insects just for fun? I can't imagine any mature Christian would say yes to that.

 

[Mexdeaf]

What I don't recall seeing on this thread (and I'm not going to wade back through it to see if it's there because I don't have the time):

Scripture proving that hunting for sport is wrong.

 

[tinytim]

We should ask the question outright. Is there anyone here who thinks there's nothing wrong with pulling the legs off insects just for fun? I can't imagine any mature Christian would say yes to that.

Of course that is wrong... that would be on the same level as the illustration I used before... shooting a deer in a leg just to see it suffer....

A good hunter takes the best shot possible to kill the deer instantly, not torture it.

Just like I will swat a fly to kill it instantly, not catch it and torture it.