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James 5:14 ... Unless you have COVID-19

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Aaron, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    James 5:14

    Because we all know communicable pathogens didn't exist in the First Century.
     
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  2. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
     
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  3. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    The sign gifts were still in evidence then.
     
  4. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    How is that a gift?
     
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    probably but if so then faith replaced them.
     
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  6. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Why is this a gift to pray over the sick when it is a daily occurrence?
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Its not. The churches were often used to take care of the ill when Doctors were not plentiful. We need to understand the verse in the context of the culture of the day.
     
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  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Revmitchell is right, the Church leaders could provide the best course of action available at that time, and reinforce the fact, that no matter what, the believer's future will be wonderful. Sound advice from the word of God.
     
  9. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    There miraculous healings at the time of James writing. These were the special spiritual gifts that God gave to authenticate His message. The signs and wonders in that period came to an end when the canon ended.

    There were three great periods when God’s message was authenticated by miraculous signs. The Law was authenticated through the miracles Moses did, the Prophets likewise through Elijah and Elisha. Lastly we have the Spirit of Christ authenticating the Gospel message.
     
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  10. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    It doesn't say anything about healing. It just says that if a person is sick, to pray over them and anoint them. I think we use Vicks vaporub nowadays.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Exactly! As there were to use wine as a healing medicine, and note also that the sins would be forgiven the sick person, so more of a whole health treatment plan!
     
  12. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Read verse 15, the very next verse.
     
  13. church mouse guy

    church mouse guy Well-Known Member
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    Oh, I see what you mean. I was ambiguous. I was trying to say that it has nothing to do with gifts because it talks about faith, which we still have today, right?

    James 5:15 (KJV) And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

    I just took it to mean that in general the prayer of faith shall save the sick because we are all going to die of some sickness sooner or later. How do you see it?
     
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Back up. Sign gifts aren't the context and it doesn't say anything about healing, though I have been healed twice in direct answer to prayers offered in this manner: Peristent drainage and ear aches in my left ear and a cold-like virus with a superbad sore throat (wasn't strep) that had me out of work.

    You still counsel people to pray if they're afflicted, and to sing if they're merry, right? But not to call for the pastors (plural) if one is sick?

    And it comes to this, is this an admonition of the omniscient Spirit of God, or of a man who had no concept of germs.
     
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  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Not a sign gift. Sign gifts still operate.
     
  16. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
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    Yes,I agree that faith is still around.

    But I do see that this passage has a special application to the miraculous healings at that time, although it is generally applicable now. That is, prayers of faith do help, but I do not think the anointing oil is for us. And of course not every one was healed even then. The effectual prayer of Paul still left Trophimus sick at Miletus.
     
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  17. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Let's get the whole context.

    James 5:14-18 NASB:
    14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, [k]anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15 and the prayer [l]offered in faith will [m]restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, [n]they will be forgiven him. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective [o]prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. 17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed [p]earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. 18 Then he prayed again, and the [q]sky [r]poured rain and the earth produced its fruit.


    I notice a possible problem to thinking this is a hard and fast, "everyone gets healed," passage. In verse 15, the sick will get well, but in verse 16 we pray for each other and may be healed. I checked the Reverse-Interlinear, which also translates these verses with "will" and "may."

    Thus, it seems we go in search of scripture for better context.

    1 Timothy 5:23 NASB
    23 No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

    2 Timothy 4:20 NASB
    20 Erastus remained at Corinth, but Trophimus I left sick at Miletus.

    Philippians 2:25-30 NASB
    25 But I thought it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother and fellow worker and fellow soldier, who is also your [n]messenger and minister to my need; 26 because he was longing [o]for you all and was distressed because you had heard that he was sick. 27 For indeed he was sick to the point of death, but God had mercy on him, and not on him only but also on me, so that I would not have sorrow upon sorrow. 28 Therefore I have sent him all the more eagerly so that when you see him again you may rejoice and I may be less concerned about you. 29 Receive him then in the Lord with all joy, and hold men like him in high regard; 30 because he came close to death [p]for the work of Christ, risking his life to complete [q]what was deficient in your service to me.


    This shows that even Paul couldn't heal everyone despite having the gift of healing. Thus, I would truly doubt James 5 is saying everyone prayed for will be healed.

    I have also heard it explained that the sign gifts, like healing, were rarer in their operation later in the ministry of the apostles. For evidence, I am told that 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy are later works in the ministry of Paul. I don't personally subscribe to that interpretation, but it is a fair one to be considered.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    They were to use wine as medicine, and the person praying over also required to deal with known sin issues!
     
  19. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I did forget to mention the fact James 5 also deals with confession of sin and forgiveness of sins.
     
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