1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Japanese ww2 weapons Americans feared the most...

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by robycop3, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Without a doubt, the Japanese feared our flamethrowers more than any other weapon we used against them. But what did our troops fear the most from them ?

    I've been told by several WW2 CINCPAC vets that they feared Japanese ARTILLERY & MORTARS more than any other weapon. The US entered into island fighting believing Japanese artillery was poor & inaccurate, having stereotyped Japanese soldiers as not being able to see that well. They quickly found out they were wrong; the Japanese artillery was highly-accurate, powerful, & able to fire repeated rounds quickly.

    They often pre-sighted their weapons, giving them interlocking fields of fire; they were often able to hit individual landing craft attacking an island they held. And their use of cover & concealment is still legendary today. Much of their island artillery was in well-protected bunkers, caves, & large pillboxes, with some pieces being able to fire & retract into shelter while being reloaded.

    Differences between artillery pieces for non-military people here: A GUN generally fires almost ina straight line. It has the longest range. A HOWITZER fires in an arc; its shells mland at around a 45 degree angle. It's used fot hitting hillsides, or hitting a hill's reverse side. It has a shorter range than a gun. A MORTAR friews its shells in a U-shaped arc so they come straight down or nearly-so. They're used against trenches or other fortifications that are vulnerable in their tops, buildings, or vehicles, or the reverse sides of hills where a howitzer can't reach.. They have the shortest range of any artillery.

    On islands such as Iwo Jima, the Japanese had huge mortars that fired a "trash-can" type shell that would hit on the coral surface, making shrapnel from the coral. greatly expanding a shell's range of damage.

    Our artillery the Japanese feared most was from ships firing inland; late in the war, many of our ships had radar & computer-assisted aiming. They were very accurate for several miles inland. (Remember, they were designed to hit a moving ship from a moving ship, so, when both the ship & target were stationary, a hit was a gimme!)
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    38,982
    Likes Received:
    2,615
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Interesting!
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    A WW2 battleship could place a 16" shell in a 25-ft. circle 20 miles away. During the Vietnam war, with laser, radar, & modern computer-assisted aiming, that accuracy was increased to a 5-FOOT CIRCLE ! That's accurate enough for a 16" shell to do its job !

    Large guns don't use shell casings such as smaller firearms use; they're powered by bags of gunpowder called cartridges. the computer determines the number of cartridges to be loaded for a particular application.

    (CARE must be exercised while handling the cartridges! a powder explosion on the U. S. S. Iowa in 1989 killed 47 sailors.)
     
  4. OnlyaSinner

    OnlyaSinner Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    171
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Shells from the Iowa-class battleships with the 16" guns weighed about a ton. Given the 18" guns of Japan's Yamato-class battleships, those shells might've weighed 2,800 lb.
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If I remember right, the Yamato's heaviest shells (APs) were 3200lb, while Iowa's APs were 2700 lb. (Someone correct me if I'm incorrect)

    In this sub-forum, I have a theoretical battle between Iowa & Yamato. In it, the more-modern Iowa's speed, maneuverability, structural soundness, & superior rate of fire& computer/radar aiming prove too much. While Iowa couldn't sink her, she crippled her, leaving her almost dead in the water, vulnerable to subbies & aircraft, while the Iowa escapes with light damage & casualties.
     
    #5 robycop3, Jan 14, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Japanese had several types of submachine guns their foes respected. While not overly-accurate, they threw a hail of lead, which made a banzai charge with every soldier armed with one quite-formidable.
     
  7. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2020
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The Japanese "long-lance" torpedo was in all ways superior to US torpedoes throughout most of the war. Also, Japan had the most sophisticated and capable long range submarines in the world. A few of these had hangars that supported float planes for scouting and limited ground/surface attack.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Speaking of torpedos, think the Russians have some that travel at speeds over 200 Knots to the target!
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Right! One time a Long lance hit a US ship after being fired from some 20 miles away. The US squadron didn't know where it came from. That's why I wrote in another thread here that the Japanese badly mis-used their subbies. Had they deployed them in "wolf packs" & sent them after their natural prey-merchant ships-they could've greatly prolonged the war.

    Using picket lines for subs cost the Japanese dearly. In mid-1944, the USS England sank SIX enemy subs in 12 days by simply rolling up a picket line.
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The US has some pretty nasty ones as well that are good stand-off weapons.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Russians had an atomic torpedo back during the Cuban missile crisis. read where they wanted to use one, but the acting fleet commander ruled no, so that close to WW III!
     
  12. Roy

    Roy <img src=/0710.gif>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2001
    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    237
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Our guys were really courageous in that they went toe to toe against an intelligent enemy with superior weaponry. I wonder at what point was it that the Japanese began to say to themselves, "What have we gotten ourselves into now?"
    Could have been the Dolittle raid which happened early on. At Midway, they lost all of their aircraft carriers to our inferrior dive bombers. In 1943, our P-38s flew over 300 miles out, practically skimming the sea surface, and assassinated their top admiral (Yamamoto) who was on an inspection tour. He was also the chief planner for the Pearl Harbor attack. Losing Yamamoto in that manner must have been terribly humiliating.

    There were brave fighters on both sides, but I think that ours were the bravest, given that the odds were against them.
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Carefully considering what I know overall about mthe Pacific War, I believe what hurt Japan the most was our subby war against their shipping & tankers. Next was the attrition of their naval pilots. early in the war, they had the best-trained pilots with the best fighter plane(the Zero) of anyone. When the war against the US started, many of those pilots had esperience against the Chinese.

    But the quest for glory began to catch up with their naval forces, both sailors & pilots. For example, at Midway, a fine air leader, Lieut. Joichi Tomonaga, who led the attack on the island in place of the ill. Cmdr. Fuchida, & was likely to soon be promoted, chose to lead an attack from the Hiryu after the other 3 carriers had been disabled, against the US carriers, while flying his own plane, which had but one operable fuel tank, refusing to use another plane. He knew he wouldn't have enough fuel to return, but he was badly upset over the loss of the 3 carriers & sought revenge. Thus, he doomed himself, no matter what.(It became moot because, after releasing his torpedo, his plane was attacked by Cmdr. Jimmy Thach, & exploded.)

    When the Hiryu was attacked in turn, & it became apparent she was doomed, Vice-Adm. Tamon Yamaguchi, who was very-competent & viewed as a successor to Nagumo & even Yamamoto, along with Capt. Tomeo Kaku, also highly-competent, chose to go down with the ship, even though she was not attacked due to any of their command decisions. They locked themselves into their respective cabins to ensure their men couldn't forcefully rescue them, as was done on some of the other carriers sunk that day. Thus, Japan lost three very-valuable leaders who could easily have been rescued.

    Also, the loss of the carriers wasn't really Adm. Nagumo's fault, as he & Yamamoto had no inkling mthat their naval radio code had been deciphered & Adm. Nimitz knew their whole plan. But Nagumo, quite-competent himself, was relegated to unimportant posts He ended up as commander of japanese naval forces on land in Saipan where, facing overwhelming US forces, shot himself dead in July, 1944.

    And quite a few of Japan's skilled navy pilots were lost at Midway as well, starting the attrition that thinned them out so their replacements weren't nearly-as-skilled. This became apparent when Japan developed the "Oscar", a fighter that could keep up with the Hellcats & Corsairs of the US. Some talented pilots could give a US plane a tough battle in an Oscar, but the Oscar was difficult to fly & not that many could master it in the short training they received. Also, most of the US pilots were skilled & highly-experienced at the time.

    Yes, the Japanese desire to die gloriously in battle for the Emperor deprived Japan of a good many able leaders & fighters.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Midway was when japan was broken and defeated, same way Germany was after Stalingrad disastor!
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As for Germany, I have a hard time deciding between Stalingrad & Kursk.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Battle of the Bulge drove nails into the coffin! What was Kursk?
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Biggest tank battle in history. Proved the panzer armies were beatable. That's where the Russian T-34 proved its value.
     
  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, Hitler had his best field general Rommel commit suicide also!
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,363
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    War was almost lost by then, anyway.
     
  20. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2020
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    25
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    It was the lack of oil that doomed Germany from the very beginning. Because the Nazi regime wedded itself to the concept of autarchy, which meant no overseas trading (Jewish bankers and whatnot), they were obliged to conquer the resources they needed rather than to trade for them on the international market. It was the lack of oil (and arable land for autarchic food production) that drove them to invade the Soviet Union in the first place. They had to invade if their "economic" system was ever going to work. This explains their dependence upon horses in all their military campaigns. It was not for a lack of mechanized transport but for a lack of oil to support that transport in the field with fuel and lubricants. Artillery was towed with horses, and the infantry had to leg it except for the Pz Grenadier units. This was true in France, 1940 as well.

    Also, because National Socialism was 200 proof Socialism, logistical priority-setting was near impossible due to there being no way of estimating true costs (without a market economy there was no accurate costing mechanism). Of course, the Soviets suffered this same limitation. So, oil-contrained motor transport meant a high dependence upon proximity to rail heads. This was a problem in Russia due to incompatible track-and-tie geometry which consumed engineering resources for conversion to European rail standards.

    I highly recommend these videos on the subject.

    Oil:


    Logistics:



    I also highly recommend TIK's playlist BATTLESTORM STALINGRAD. Truly epic and enlightening with dozens of hours of detailed content. You will find nothing else that touches it in terms of the latest research and information that has come to light in recent times. The later episodes include the most detailed map of the city that has ever existed based upon incredible research. Every, single, house/structure is included. The map is constantly being refined. One can't praise this series enough.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
Loading...