1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jesus Christ: The Atonement For The Human Race

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Saved-By-Grace, Mar 9, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    “My little children, these things write I unto you that ye may not sin. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the Atonement for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world” (1 John 2:1-2)

    “ἱλασμός” (Meaning from Greek/Hebrew Authorities)

    “expiation, atonement, propitiation, sin-offering Lv 25,9; forgiveness Ps 129(130),4”

    (Johan Lust, Erik Eynikel, Katrin Hauspie; A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint)

    The LXX use for the Hebrew “kippur”, which denotes,

    “redemptions, atonements” (Gesenius, Hebrew Lexicon)

    “of atonement” (Brown, Driver, Briggs)

    “atonement, sin offering” (H G Liddell, R Scott)

    “means of atonement” (G W H Lampe, Patristic Greek Lexicon)

    “Atoning sacrifice” (V Verbrugge, The NIV Theological Dictionary)

    “A suitable English translation for this word (ἱλασμός, hilasmos) is a difficult and even controversial problem. “Expiation,” “propitiation,” and “atonement” have all been suggested.” (NET Bible)

    “atoning sacrifice” (Word Bible Commentary)

    “it answers in Septuagint to Hebrew kaapar, to effect an atonement or reconciliation with God; in Eze_44:27, to the sin-offering” (Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Commentary)

    “It signifies any action which has expiation as its object, whether prayer, compensation, or sacrifice. Thus ‘the ram of the atonement’ (Num_5:8)” (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges)

    Meaning of Propitiation in English Language Dictionaries

    “theol.) (a.) The influence or effects of the death of Christ in appeasing the divine Justice, and conciliating the divine favor, (b.) That which propitiates; atonement or atoning sacrifice.” (Webster’s Complete Dictionary)

    “Propitiation, appeasement, atonement” (Oxford English Dictionary)

    English Bibles that use “Atonement” for the Greek, “ἱλασμός”

    New International Version, “atoning sacrifice”

    New Living Translation, “the sacrifice that atones for our sins”

    Berean Study Bible, “the atoning sacrifice”

    Christian Standard Bible, “the atoning sacrifice”

    International Standard Version, “the atoning sacrifice”

    Weymouth New Testament, “an atoning sacrifice”

    World English Bible, “the atoning sacrifice”

    NET Bible, “the atoning sacrifice”

    New Heart English Bible, “the atoning sacrifice”

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English, “The Atonement”

    On the meaning of “the Whole World” (“ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου”)

    the world, i.e. the whole race of mankind, both believers and unbelievers, both good and bad...1 John ii.2, of the whole race of mankind” (John Parkhurst, Greek Lexicon)

    “particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race” (Joseph Thayer, Greek Lexicon)

    “the world as mankind” (W Arndt and F Gingrich, Greek Lexicon)

    the world, for the inhabitants of the earth, men, mankind” (Edward Robinson, Greek Lexicon)

    “1Jn.2:2. Αὐτὸς, He Himself) This word forms an Epitasis [See Append. on this figure]: a most powerful Advocate, because He Himself is the propitiation.—ἰλασμός ἐστι, is the propitiation) The word ἰλασμός, and ἐξιλασμὸς, is of frequent occurrence in the Septuagint: it denotes a propitiatory sacrifice: ch. 1Jn.4:10; comp. 2Co.5:21 : that is, the Saviour Himself. There had been therefore enmity (offence) between God and sinners.—ἡμῶν, of us) the faithful. There is no reference here to the Jews; for he is not writing to the Jews: ch. 1Jn.5:21.—περὶ ὅλου) respecting (for) the sins of the whole world. If he had said only, of the world, as ch. 1Jn.4:14, the whole must have been understood: now, since of the whole is expressed, who dares to put any restriction upon it? ch. 1Jn.5:19. The propitiation is as widely extended as sin.” (Johann Bengel)

    For the whole world(peri holou tou kosmou). It is possible to supply the ellipsis here of tôn hamartiôn(the sins of) as we have it in Heb 7:27, but a simpler way is just to regard "the whole world" as a mass of sin (1Jn 5:19). At any rate, the propitiation by Christ provides for salvation for all (Heb 2:9) if they will only be reconciled with God (2Co 5:19-21).” (A T Robertson, Word Pictures)

    Also for the sins of the whole world. Christ's advocacy is limited to believers (1Jn_2:1; 1Jn_1:7): His propitiation extends as widely as sin: note, 2Pe_2:1, "the whole world" cannot be restricted to the believing portion (cf. 1Jn_4:14 and 1Jn_5:19). 'Thou, too, art part of the world: thine heart cannot think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me' (Luther)” (Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, Commentary)

    Ὁ κόσμος is another of S. John’s characteristic expressions. In his writings it generally means those who are alienated from God, outside the pale of the Church… ‘the inhabitants of the earth, the human race.’ (Cambridge Greek Testament for Schools and Colleges)

    And not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.—This statement must not be limited. Its scope is that Christ’s redemption was offered for the whole of mankind, from Adam to the last man.” (Charles Ellicott, Commentary)

    respecting (for) the sins of the whole world. If he had said only, of the world, as ch. 1Jn_4:14, the whole must have been understood: now, since of the whole is expressed, who dares to put any restriction upon it? ch. 1Jn_5:19. The propitiation is as widely extended as sin.” (Johann Bengel, Gnomon)

    “It is then added: and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. And why? First, because the apostle would utter his generous testimony, on this his first mention of the world, to the absolute universality of the design of the mission of the ‘Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world:’ his last mention of it, the second time he says ‘the whole world,’ will be of a severer character (chap. 1Jn_5:19). Secondly, he thus intimates that the proper propitiation, as such, was the reconciliation of the Divine holiness and love in respect to all sins at once and in their unity, while the advocacy based upon it refers to special sins: on the one hand, no other atonement is necessary; on the other, that must avail if penitence secures the advocacy of Him who offered it once for all. Lastly, as we doubt not, the apostle thus ends a discussion, the fundamental object of which was to set forth universally and in general the way in which the Gospel offers to all mankind fellowship with the light of God’s holiness.” (Philip Schaff, Commentary)

    “It is sufficient for us; sufficient for all the world. But also for the sins of the whole world - The phrase "the sins of" is not in the original, but is not improperly supplied, for the connection demands it. This is one of the expressions occurring in the New Testament which demonstrate that the atonement was made for all people, and which cannot be reconciled with any other opinion. If he had died only for a part of the race, this language could not have been used. The phrase, "the whole world, " is one which naturally embraces all people; is such as would be used if it be supposed that the apostle meant to teach that Christ died for all people; and is such as cannot be explained on any other supposition. If he died only for the elect, it is not true that he is the "propitiation for the sins of the whole world" in any proper sense, nor would it be possible then to assign a sense in which it could be true.” (Albert Barnes, Commentary)

    “for the whole world, Gentiles as well as Jews, all the descendants of Adam. The apostle does not say that he died for any select part of the inhabitants of the earth, or for some out of every nation, tribe, or kindred; but for All Mankind; and the attempt to limit this is a violent outrage against God and his word.” (Adam Clarke, Commentary)

    And not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world, lit. ‘not for ours only, but also for the whole world,’ a construction made possible by the fact that the Greek verb in question can take as goal either ‘the sin (of a man)’ or ‘the man (who sins).’ The two phrases may better be rendered as one or two full sentences, for example, “He covers up our sins, and also the sins of the whole world,“ ‘And not only our sins he makes up for. He makes up also for the sins of the whole world.’ The phrase the whole world may be rendered ‘all those who live on this earth,’ ‘men from everywhere’ (in a language which only possesses terms for a geographically rather restricted area), or simply, “all men” (TEV).” (United Bible Society, A Translator’s Handbook)

    “οὐ περὶ τῶν ἡμετερων … περὶ ὄλου τοῦ κόσμου. As in the Gospel of John, the scope of divine salvation is ultimately regarded as all-inclusive. The fourth evangelist describes Jesus as the “Savior of the world” (4:42; cf. 3:16); and here John refers to him as the one whose “atoning sacrifice” relates to the sins of “the whole world.” The adjective “whole,” (περὶ) ὄλου, is intensive. The sacrificial offering of Christ is effective not just for the sins of the “world” (which could refer to a section of it), and still less for “our” sins (those of John’s immediate circle) alone; it embraces the sins of the whole world. (Note the construction οὐ μόνον … ἀλλὰ καὶ, “not only … but also”.) On the term κόσμος (“world”), meaning “the earth” as the habitation of mankind and the sphere of God’s salvific activity.” (Word Bible Commentary)
     
    #1 Saved-By-Grace, Mar 9, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    11,023
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There are those who place emphasis upon a limit of the blood declaring that it was shed only for the elect.

    Such an emphasis. in my opinion, is unfortunate and, in my opinion, a view that is inconsistent with the Scriptures.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    but even those who say that Jesus "died" for the world without exception, will argue that this does not extend to the "atonement", which they claim is only for the "elect". I believe, till shown otherwise, that this passage from 1 John shows that Jesus' death in every way, is for the entire human race. However, this does not mean that the entire world is saved automatically, but, only to those who will "accept" what Jesus has done for them, as Paul says in Romans 3

    "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God has set forth to be a mercy-seat (covering) through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him who believes in Jesus." (24-26)

    Where the verb, προτίθεμαι (set forth), here has the meaning, "to offer", or, “provided” for a propitiatory gift. To those who would "accept" this "gift of atoning sacrifice"
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,502
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Do you think it may depend on whether we are looking at Jesus as the atonement vs our sins forgiven (that atonement applied to us)?
     
  5. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is the provision for the sins of the human race. The application is only after the sinner repents and believes in the Gospel
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,502
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree, but it seems that sometimes people look at our sins being forgiven at the Cross (2000 years ago) rather than "at the Cross" (because of).
     
  7. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    you mean, the death of Jesus being "actual", rather than "potential"?
     
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,502
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well, no. Jesus actually died. But His death alone does not save. I get the impression some may believe otherwise.
     
  9. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Sorry, I did not mean that. There are some who believe that the death of Jesus "actually" paid the price for the sins of the "elect". And others, that His death was only "effective" when a sinner repents and believes, and therefore is "applicable" for the whole world. I hold to the latter.
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,502
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe Christ paid the price for mankind and is therefore the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

    @TCassidy once offered me correction in how I was using "atonement". He pointed out that if our sins are atoned then we are not considered guilty.

    How I view "limited atonement" is that Christ's purchased the human race to save those who believe.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Interesting that no where in the Bible does it say there is any "limit" on the death/atonement of Jesus Christ. This is a man-made theory with not Bible justification. The Old Testament equates "atonement" with "sacrifice", or "covering for sin", and the LXX uses the same Greek ἱλασμός, when it translates the Hebrew, כִּפֻּר. "propitiation=atonement". Webster's 1913 English dictionary defines atonement as:

    "Satisfaction or reparation made by giving an equivalent for an injury, or by doing of suffering that which will be received in satisfaction for an offense or injury; expiation; amends; -- with for. Specifically, in theology: The expiation of sin made by the obedience, personal suffering, and death of Christ"

    The word in nether, Hebrew, Greek, or English, means that a sinner is already forgiven (at-one), as it requires both "repentance and faith", as Jesus Himself taught in Mark 1:15.

    Commenting on Colossians 1:14, John Calvin says: "He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

    "Redemption" is from the Greek, ἀπολύτρωσις, which means, "release effected by payment of ransom, redemption, deliverance". Yet, here we have Calvin himself say that "all the sins of the world have been expiated". And, on Mark 14:24, Calvin says, "Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one". I think that John Calvin was a "Reformed" theologian.

    But, Jesus says in Luke 13:3, 5, "unless you REPENT, you will likewise perish"
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Once again, a thread without a definition. Atonement sometimes considered to mean "at one ment" or united with God, reconciled. But that occurs when God transfers a person into Christ. However, atonement is used to refer to Christ's sacrifice on the cross which provided the means of reconciliation to the whole world.

    Unless you untangle those two very different actions, you end up with muddle.

    When God transfers a person from the domain of darkness into the kingdom of His Son, God is reconciling the world to Himself, one sinner at a time.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,502
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with you on the death part, but not the atonement part. The reason is that I do not believe Christ's death alone effected atonement.

    Where I see this in Scripture is that God loved the world (mankind) that He gave His Son that all who believe (limited atonement) would have life.

    Redemption (the purchase) is unlimited, atonement is not (the forgiveness).
     
  14. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Paul speaks of sinners being "reconciled" to God in 2 Corinthians 5. "Atonement" does not have the same meaning in Biblical usage. A person can be "atoned" for, but does not mean that they have been "reconciled" to God, as the sinner remains an enemy of God (John 3:36), until the time that they repent and believe. I don't think the meaning "at-one-ment" is the correct definition for either, ἱλασμός or כִּפֻּר, where the meaning in both Hebrew and Greek, as I have shown in the OP, is "atonement in sacrifice".
     
  15. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "atonement" is "sacrifice", and "covering for sin", in the OT both the Hebrew and LXX usage. How to you get "forgiveness" from the word?
     
  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,502
    Likes Received:
    3,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe the OT "covering for sin" looks to actual forgiveness. Jesus redeemed all mankind, is the "atonement" or propitiation for all mankind, but does not affect atonement for all mankind (only those who believe will experience atonement for their sins and be united to God in Christ).

    The disagreement (between you and I) is a matter of definition, or perhaps perspective. I don't believe this the case for those you have been arguing against.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    2,954
    Likes Received:
    425
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Atonement in the NT simply means "to be reconciled to". Atonement in the OT means "To cover".
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Saved-By-Grace

    Saved-By-Grace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    56
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But the defined meanings in lexical aids for the actual Greek words, do not mean "reconciled", unless I have missed something that you can quote?
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    27,003
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes we are reconciled when God puts us into Christ (spiritually baptizes us into Christ). We are then "at one with Christ."

    In Romans 5:11, we see the phrase "received the atonement or reconciliation." This refers to having been reconciled by being transferred spiritually into Christ.

    In Hebrews 2:17 we see the phrase "to make propitiation or atonement" which provided the means of reconciliation though the blood of Jesus.

    As long as you use the same word for two very different actions, muddle is all you will get.
     
  20. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Messages:
    2,954
    Likes Received:
    425
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Look at the context

    Romans 5:11

    And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement...

    Vs. 10--For if when we were enemies,we were RECONCILED to God by the death of His Son, much more, being RECONCILED, we shall be saved by His Life.

    Vs. 12--Wherefore...parenthetical statement....righteousness came through Christ unto eternal Life.

    Vs. 1--Peace with God through Jesus Christ...

    I would say context says atonement means "Reconciliation", "Restoration", IMO
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...