Jesus repudiates Mariolatry, Part the Fourth

In this discussion, Heb 2:16 is important and the word " Spermatos" is NOT Objective form, but GENITIVE !


If Jesus was the seed of Abraham, why does the Bible say Spermatos in Genitive form?

 

Jesus not only could, but did live his whole life sinless.


1 Peter 2:22 says, "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth." 1 John 3:5 says, ". . . And in him is no sin."

Jesus father, our father, Mary’s father, OUR GOD was sinless.

Hebrew 4:15 says, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are - yet was without sin."


Mary is not sinless. If she were sinless, she couldn’t be saved by her son’s sacrifice on the Cross.

Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

If Jesus was Mary’s biological son, he would have to inherit a sin nature. This goes against the purpose in which God sent our Savior. For him to die on the cross as a sacrifice for our sins
The “Overshadowing” speaking in that verse is the holy spirit impregnanting Mary, using her womb as an incubator. She is a surrogate mother, there is no other way around it.

You can’t redefine “overshadowing” to mean making Jesus perfect. He was already perfect, as was his seed. Jesus did not need correction.[/B]

Also note below here the word a. It doesn’t say HER Son (Mary’s son) but a son. This separation, imo, helps to prove that Jesus is not Mary’s biological son.

Luke 1:28-33
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

 

Frankly Eliyahu, I have no idea how you're making your conclusions here. I've never said "flesh became flesh". The question is the method God used for the Word to become flesh. And I think that is biologically through Mary, so that the prophecy regarding the seed of David is fulfilled.

 

Surrogate motherhood has nothing to do with the 'seed' of David that I can see.

 

Okay, I will admit to being a little out of my league here in terms of Greek etc. However, does GENITIVE not mean 'Possessive"?

And objective would be 'somewhat independent'?

So while I probably don't have a clue what I'm talking about here -- I would say that it's in genitive form because we really are speaking about Abraham's personal seed, not an 'objective' something that conveys some abstract meaning.

 

You would be correct in this Ann (I'm glad to see I'm not going crazy).

Okay, maybe there's not enough evidence to support that I'm not crazy.

This idea is relatively new theologically but is beginning to make its rounds. It is not the first time I've seen it (John Hagee preaches this as well).

 

This idea must be new, correct.

However, even before the life science was developed, many True Christians rejected the physical contributions without knowing very much about the science. I didn't hear from John Hagee, but I have got the conviction on this when I had a lengthy discussion on the life science with a Doctor who practiced medicine over 40 years.

The Greek genitive meant some meaning was abbreviated from there, not the direct objective of the verb - take, and therefore the person Jesus didn't take the seed itself.

When we come to Heb 10:5 - , we notice Jesus had the idea before His incarnation that He is coming to the world.
Also, Jesus mentioned He IS before Abraham was ( Jn 8:58) to convince that Abraham rejoiced to see His Days and saw it.
Moses preferred the reproach for Christ to all the riches and glory of Egypt ( Heb 11:26)

Where were those memories of Jesus gone at the time the human embryo was formed in Mary if Jesus was the result of the Biological reaction by Mary?

Not even 1% of Jesus memory or capacity that Jesus had before His coming into the world disappeared, and Jesus was still in the Heaven ( John 3:13). He was the Creator ( Col 1:14-20), God didn't create anything without Jesus ( John 1:1-, Ephesians 3:9)


In OT, we can find Jesus Christ worked so many times in OT, appeared to Manoa, to Abraham, to Moses, to Jacob in human form. Was He shown in ghost form? He wrestled with Jacob.

Did Jesus belong to Adam's race? Read 1 Cor 15

 

In order for Mary to become the Biological Mother, there must be a link between the body of Jesus and that of Mary, namely,

- 1)the Ovum of Mary became the flesh without sperm

-2) the ovum of Mary became the flesh by fertilization with the Word of God

-3) any other part of flesh of Mary became the flesh by non-sexual reproduction like mutagenic reaction, etc.


Which one are you talking about?

 

Yes, last I checked, Hagee's latest book declares that Jesus was not the Messiah prophesied for the Jews.

It is always nice to find common ground Ann. :thumbs:

 

So how do you interpret "made of a woman"?

Regarding this:
If Jesus was Mary’s biological son, he would have to inherit a sin nature.

I believe that statement defies the power of God.

Regarding this:
Mary is not sinless. If she were sinless, she couldn’t be saved by her son’s sacrifice on the Cross.

I would say she was absolutely saved by her son's sacrifice on the cross. The question is -- when did this occur? Mary is quoted as saying her spirit rejoices in "God my savior". Not "God my future savior".

 

You are trying to make the false accusation again which was typical of Roman Catholic when they tortured and killed many innocent Christian believers.

I believe that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied for the Jews and Israel.

But I believe that Word became the Flesh, none of the flesh of Mary became flesh of Jesus.

 

Who did I make a false accusation against exactly?

 

I feel like the cavalry showed up.:love2:

 

Does it deny that Word became flesh?

So, are you saying that the Ovum made the Asexual Reproduction?

So the seed of Eve became flesh, do you mean?

How would you explain the Flesh came from the Word?

I already explained the Seed of Eve means the Surrogate Motherhood, then what is your explanation on the formation of Body of Christ, with the connection with the body of Mary?

 

You are very much coward and dishonest, and God knows your tricky mind
already.

Didn't you insinuate that I am denying the Messiahood of Jesus as John Hagee does, in the above post like the following?