Jim Baker is back on TV

I too, believe this is what it is all about, God's glory and praise. Ministering before the Lord is not to become financially very wealthy. A true man or woman of God would give the extra yearly thousands of dollars to poorer missionaries. Did not the N.T. Christians 'have all things in common?'

 

Sorry, I should not have responded to this topic; I am not a Baptist. Again, my mistake.

 

If Bakker has repented, then I wonder why there are soooo many discrepancies in his book and the books written by the reporters who investigated and documented the illegal stuff?

Besides, I got tired of him saying he was sorry, but making excuses for everything he did and ignoring the real charges of homosexuality disgressions, etc.

I also got quite tired of him whining about how he wanted Tammy Fay back and how he got all excited at the prison when he rubbed up against her.

 

I saw Bakker in Charlotte NC at a New Years Eve service in 1998. He "preached" for about two hours citing no Scripture but page after page from Michael Drosnin's The Bible Code. If you are not familiar with that book take a minute to read the reviews at
Amazon

He said the Tribulation would start in September 1999 so I guess that means all you pre-trib's were wrong and the rest of us will be out of here sometime in 2006.

 

Amen! Preach it, Fat Eagle!

 

Amen! Preach it, Fat Eagle! </font>[/QUOTE]You know, if we followed this line of thinking, we would have to be quiet when people teach things that go against God's word. And actually, we are supposed to judge and expose aberrant, questionable, or false teachings.

I am not saying anything about Jim Baker, because I don't know about his present teachings or activities. But there is nothing wrong in evaluating anyone's teachings. We are supposed to judge teachings and actions according to God's word.

 

Matt.5
[37] But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

 

I read his book I was Wrong. At least he said that he was wrong. That is better than others we have seen over the years.

If have seen some of the same sorts of things by others they just never had that much to deal with. I have seen Christian businessmen steal from customers without their knowledge and be dishonest in their business practices.

I don't hear anyone talking about the wrongness of the SBC through the BFA stealing over 400 million from the folks who had their money in the Baptist Foundation of Arizona. I was one of those who said it was wrong and told other pastors about it before the big blow up. Even my own deacons got mad at me. It told them it was wrong and gave them the scripture that speaks to that. Quite a number of churches in AZ and other investors lost their money. The church I was pastoring lost almost all of their money except about 3500 dollars. Did the SBC ever apoliogize? Seems as though they just want to start all over again doing the same thing.

See any difference between what the BFA did and what Baker did? I don't. Both were stealing with no insurance to back it up.

 

You are taking this out of context. Are you saying we should only say yes and no and nothing else? How does this apply to the discussion at hand?

 

ICK!!!!!!!!!! Why in the world would he put that in his book? Is it to convince people that he isn't homosexual, ya think?

 

True, but with a spirit of righetousness. For example, of Pastor Billyjoejimbob spends 20 years of preaching rock solid scripture, we hardly give it notice, but when that same person says one or two things that don't line up scripturally, all of a sudden, he's a false teacher, and the previous 20 years of rock solid teachings goes out the window. This is NOT righteous judgement. Most people LOOK FORWARD to finding errancies in peoples' teachings so they can berate that person under the cover of righteousness. It makes us feel better about ourselves, when the truth is that it makes us no better than the pharasses of Jesus' time.

 

Paid a gogoes: Then I would assume that you have reached perfection! Only thing is , if u were perfect you would not be on the BB but sitting at Jesus feet.
I would say all of us here including yourself have not judged everything good from evil sometime or other and fallen into sin. But God is merciful and when we ask forgiveness he does it.
I do agree with you on one thing though. When someone like Bakker falls as he did, he should not preach again or be in a leadership role.
Jimmy Swaggert used to be one of my favorite men of God but when he sinned as he did and continued to preach even though the Assemblies of God ( his denomination) censured him and layed down a punishment, he refused and went independent.
It was not so much the sin for God will forgive him, but the unwillingness to accept the authority over him is what turned me off and since then I have not watched him at all.
I do believe he is saved and forgiven though.

 

Excellent point. Swaggart primarily lost his credibility not just because he sinned, but because he refused to accept the consequences of sin. You can't forgive someone when they refudse to acknowlege that they're deserving of punishment, for that is not true repentence.

 

True, but with a spirit of righetousness. For example, of Pastor Billyjoejimbob spends 20 years of preaching rock solid scripture, we hardly give it notice, but when that same person says one or two things that don't line up scripturally, all of a sudden, he's a false teacher, and the previous 20 years of rock solid teachings goes out the window. This is NOT righteous judgement. Most people LOOK FORWARD to finding errancies in peoples' teachings so they can berate that person under the cover of righteousness. It makes us feel better about ourselves, when the truth is that it makes us no better than the pharasses of Jesus' time. [/b]</font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you, JohnV. Some may look forward to finding faults, but I find false teaching oppressive, depressing, and sad. The problem in the church today, however, is not that there is too much awareness of false teachings, but that there is not enough. Not wanting to offend or "judge" anyone (even though looking at teachings is not judging a person but their teachings) rules the day -- but it's wrong to ignore outright heresies such as Word Faith or false beliefs like Mormonism.

 

You assumed wrongly! This personal stab at me is totally irrelevant and asinine. Of course, this is the typical favorite tactic of those who cannot refute another’s case. Always attack the person with innuendo when you can’t answer his argument. One need not be perfect to strive for righteousness. Furthermore, there is a difference between willfulness and weakness.

BTW, trying to be cute with my username fell short of the desired effect. That’s funny!

 

Yeah, but repentance is more than simply saying that you are wrong! Repentance is a change of direction (OT) and change of mind (NT). Furthermore, confession is not just admitting your sin but it is saying the same thing about your sin that God says: it is wicked, sinful, evil, vile, dirty, hateful, filthy, etc. Confession is agreeing with God about your sin. In Bakker’s book, he was quite self-serving and put a spin on the events. What could he say? He was caught red-handed. I could see no brokenness and godly sorrow for having defrauded widows and retired folks. I saw no overwhelming grief at sinning against a holy and righteous God. There was no sense remorse for dragging down the Name of Christ and causing His Name to be blasphemed among unbelievers. It was all about Jim and his struggles. It was self-centered and self-serving. The kicker was the he ended with this statement: “I was wrong about not ever being able to minister again.” IMHO, he has NO CREDIBILITY!.

BTW, we don't praise someone just because we can find someone who is worse.

 

Cetainly that is a judgment on your part but I am willing to give him some time and see what happens. His sin can't be nearly as bad as David and Moses. To kill someone is far grater than to steal money. I often wonder how many were behind his plan and he was just the front man?

Time will tell though.