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Featured John 1: verse 12...alone? or does 1:13 explain it?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Iconoclast, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    It doesn't matter to Calvinists. They also misappropriate Ezekiel 36 and apply it to all people, not just Israelites. <SMH>
     
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Now you are conflating two issues. Whether or not faith precedes regeneration does not address your claim that man can will himself salvation. In any event, you will have a hard time explaining that regeneration precedes faith with verses like:

    John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

    and

    Eph. 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

    But that's a subject matter for another thread.



    Merely repeating your assertion does not make it true. How about some names, or better yet, some posts showing where a BB member has said, "a sinner in and of himself accepts or receives Jesus all by himself by an act of his will."

    Well then, it should be easy to find some of these posts and link up to them, shouldn't it?
     
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  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    The Truth is always an encouragement to the child of God. Why not climb down from your high horse and let those of us who are actually experiencing the pain and suffering decide what helps alleviate that pain and suffering?
     
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  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I believe we see John 1: 11-13 here.

    And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 1 Tim 1:12,13

    Paul is going down the road in ignorant in unbelief. Jesus translates him from unbelief unto belief, declares (counted) him faithful, enters him via the Holy Spirit, Christ in him, puts him into the ministry.

    For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Rom 8:29

    Paul was not going to Damascus seeking God.

    The hope of glory!
     
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  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    John is giving to us just why they were able to receive Jesus as lord, and come out of darkness unto His light!
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello MB,
    Men do not have a right to refuse God do they?
    If they had such a right it would not be sinful.
    Men are born in sinful rebellion since the fall. Refusal of God's word is the condition of all men apart from the Spirit....do you agree?
    While spoken of those Jews at that time, it is true of all men.
    MB , I think people misunderstand irresistible grace as you have posted.
    Gods grace is resisted by men everyday.
    Irresistable grace is always effectual in that those sinners who are granted such grace do not ULTIMATELY resist, but are drawn by cords of love.

    You mention "supposed" sovereignty?
    I am pretty sure I am not understanding what you mean...could you clarify...
    Please explain Isa 46:9-11 for me and tell me what that means as far as God being God and completely in control of everything as explained also in psalm 115. Thanks.
     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Good solid post and caution Hank D...
    Thanks
    I agree we should do all we can to remove obstacles and urge sinners to flee to Jesus.
     
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  8. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    Actually, that's not what D. A. Carson says--whom i believe is Reformed in his soteriology.

    He says that the Gospel was written as a Jewish evangelistic tool to reach other Jews during the time period of circulation--post 70 a.d.

    Also, The text itself is quite simple to understand--particularly in its contemporary setting.

    1. The Jews as a whole Rejected their Messiah vs. 11

    2. However, some did receive Him--They were the ones ALREADY following Yahweh with a sincere heart prior to Christ coming on the scene (the remnant). vs. 12

    3. And then John speaks of a greater theological issue--the Children of God are not born through Abraham, but through God Himself. Jews would, and did, claim to be "of God" because of their Jewish Lineage of Abraham. (John 8 is specific to this. Galatians as well). vs. 13
     
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  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello I TL,
    Those verses in John and eph1 are all good verses,especially when you read eph1:3-14 together....it is one sentence in the Greek, the second longest in the nt. Col 1: 9-20 being the longest, so it is good to read the whole sentence before concluding..
    I am at lunch break now so I cannot scan the archives. The two former mods were Dhk.and skandelon. Look Back around 2012 for interactions with brother preacher for truth dealing with salvation.
    As time permits I would search where skandelon said that a sinner coming to be an to welcome truth is not supernatural...but that the sinner is as he claimed....response-able...do you recall that?
     
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  10. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. Fill in the blanks later :)
     
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  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Well, you deny Romans 3:10-18 as being applicable today, as you aver ppl can seek God w/o being drawn.
     
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  12. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Ah...skan likened salvation to a personal achievement. He left not long after that.
     
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  13. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    aver?
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    DA Carson would agree with God reserving out of national Israel a faithful remnant onto Himself, as in the elect!
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Doesn't God still save today though the very same way that He did back then?
     
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  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Wikipedia Hosea
    Location[edit]
    Although it is not expressly stated in the Book of Hosea, it is apparent from the level of detail and familiarity focused on northern geography, that Hosea conducted his prophetic ministries in the Northern Israel (Samaria)of which he was a native.[3] In Hosea 5:8 ff., there seems to be a reference to the Syro-Ephraimite War which led to the capture of the kingdom by the Assyrians (c. 734–732 BC). Hosea’s long ministry (ca. 750–725) seems to have ended before the fall of Samaria in 722/721.[4]

    And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And Godsaid unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Hosea 1:6-9

    Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure. Hosea 8:8

    He came unto his own, and his own received him not. John 1:1 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. Heb 7:14

    Exactly who were the people of God when he came unto his own?

    Did he at this time give unto all them or was he taking out a people for his name?

    Acts 15:8 “So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,

    Who are the, us, in that verse relative to, "ye are not my people, and I will not be your God," and "he came unto his own"?


    “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16
    Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? John 7:35
     
  17. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    aver--state or assert to be the case.
     
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  18. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I call it a choice. Open your eyes most Jews rejected Christ

    Men are sinful this is true. Most are rebellious but some do respond to the gospel.
    All men are drawn to Christ. and yes most resist.
    Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
    God being almighty means nothing is impossible with God. The Calvinist define sovereignty as God being unable to give men a choice because he would no longer be sovereign. God is all mighty and is not restricted because of His mighty power. If it/s God's pleasure he will do it because He is all mighty
    MB
     
  19. InTheLight

    InTheLight Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely false representation of my position.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL
     
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  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    ITL,
    This is the time where you can offer SG,and the onlookers, why what he posted does not reflect your view....try a bit more than six words if you can:Notworthy:Notworthy:Notworthy:Redface
     
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