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John 6:37,65

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by RipponRedeaux, Oct 29, 2021.

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  1. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    I mulled over which forum I should place this thread and landed here.

    First I will list a number of ways various English translations render 6:37.

    CSB
    Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.

    CEB
    Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and I won't send away anyone who comes to me.

    EHV
    Everyone the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never cast out.

    ESV
    All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

    LEB
    Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never throw out.

    Mounce
    All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes I will never turn away.

    NET
    Everyone whom whom the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away.

    NIV
    All those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

    NLT
    However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

    WEB
    All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out.

    Berkeley
    Every one whom the Father has given Me will come to Me, and I will certainly not cast out anyone who comes to Me.

    Goodspeed
    All that my Father gives to me will come to me, and I will never refuse anyone who comes to me.

    KNT
    All that the father gives me will come to me; and I won't reject anyone who comes to me.

    Weymouth
    Every one whom the Father gives me will come to Me, and him who comes to me I will never drive away.

    Norlie
    All whom the Father has given Me shall come to Me, and he who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

    20th Century N.T.
    All those whom the Father gives me will come to me, and no one who comes to me will I ever turn away.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________
    There 16 different Bible versions with various wordings expressing the very same thing.

    The Father gives certain people to His Son, Jesus Christ. Every single person He gives to Christ will come to Christ, there is no possibility of failure. And every soul coming to Jesus will never be cast aside.

    Comforting words from the mouth of Jesus.
     
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  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Wonder how long before we get here "Taint so"
     
  3. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    There was a strange and unorthodox wording of this verse by a BB poster. This is how he rendered it on 1/6/2020
    "Anyone who the Father gives to Me will arrive at Me, and the one coming toward Me, I will not cast out."

    (The grammar is his, not mine.)

    He updated his version on 9/4/2021.
    "Everyone the Father gives will arrive within Me, and the one transferred to Me, I will never cast out."

    (Again, the grammar is his, not mine.)
     
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  4. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    It's so reassuring that such a diverse number of translations --16 in my OP, all end up communicating the very same truths.
     
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  5. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Now onto the related passage 6:65b

    CSB
    no one can come to me unless it is granted to him by the Father.

    CEB
    none can come to me unless the Father enables them to do so.

    EHV
    no one can come to me unless it is given to him by my Father.

    ESV
    no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.

    LEB
    no one can come to me unless it has been granted to him by the Father.

    Mounce
    no one can come to me unless it is granted to him by the Father.

    NET
    no one can come to me unless the Father has allowed him to come.

    NIV
    no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.

    NLT
    people can't come to me unless the Father gives them to me.

    WEB
    no one can come to me, unless it is given to him by my Father.

    Weymouth
    no one can come to me unless it be granted him by the Father.

    KNT
    no one can come to me unless it is given to them by the Father.

    Goodspeed
    no one can come to me unless he is enabled to do so by the Father.

    Berkeley
    no one is able to come to Me unless it is granted him by the Father.

    Norlie
    no one can come to Me unless the Father enables him to do so.

    20th Century N.T.
    no one can come to me, unless enabled by the Father.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________
    So, again, we have 16 different translations with the exact same meaning. No one will come (or is able to come) to Jesus unless the Father gives, grants, allows, enables that individual to do so.

    I like the last translation the best; it's pithy.

    To tally things up, six versions used the word granted.
    Five versions used enabled or enables.
    Four versions used given or gives.
    And one used allowed.
     
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  6. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    Well since you want to use this for the translation forum, let me add the only one I quote and the one you left out... The KJV!... Brother Glen:)
     
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  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The Father gave the disciples to Jesus. He even mentions that in His prayer in John 17. It’s a misapplication of this passage to apply it to every saved person.
     
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  8. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    How about names written in the book of life from eternity?
     
  9. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    Who came to him and for what reason did they come?
     
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    John 6:44.
     
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  11. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Yes indeedy!

    No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up on the last day. (NIV)

    Some absolutes from the mouth of Jesus there. Not most, or some --every single one cannot come to Jesus except by the Father's say-so. The Father does the drawing so that each and every one of His choosing comes to Jesus. And Jesus will raise that group up on the last day.
     
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  12. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    You're sounding like others who have an aberrant theology.

    When Jesus preached the contents found in John 6 many of His disciples "turned back and no longer followed him."(verse 66) The disciples were not just the eleven --but all who at least initially believed His message.

    The content of all of John 6 apply to all today as it has applied to all since He spoke those words. Based on your unorthodox principle even John 3:16 would not apply to any but his original disciples.
     
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  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    that verse doesn’t say that the one drawn is guaranteed to come. It only says that the one that comes is guaranteed to be raised up on the last day
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No the aberrant theology is yours. The disciples that walked away are the reason He says this. Just because they were disciples does not mean that they were saved.
     
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  15. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    You are ignoring the import of verses 37 and 65. For review, this is what verse 37 says :
    All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

    Verse 65b states :
    no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.

    So you see, there is an indissoluble link, guaranteed not to fail, because the Father never fails. The Father gives particular individuals to Jesus. Not one of them falls through the cracks. In verse 44 the word 'draws' is used in the same manner that 'gives' was used in verse 37.
     
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  16. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    He had many 'disciples' in the larger sense who followed Him until some of them could not bear to heed the message from His lips. Of course there were a number, maybe quite a number who walked away from Him. Of course they were not saved if they abandoned Him. But that doesn't at all discount the truths Jesus spoke in verses 37,44,65 and the entire chapter.
     
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  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    The fact that people try to argue with this astounds me?
     
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  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    min 37 He was referencing the 12. I’ve already pointed this out.
     
  19. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    All you have done is to point out your faulty thinking. He was not only addressing his core disciples but the wider audience of 'disciples' who followed him (see verse 66). And everything Jesus said in chapter six applies to everyone today.
     
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  20. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    “From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?” John 6:66–67 (KJV 1900)
     
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