John 6:47

It is the commitment of the life. It is not measured in quantity. If you come to Jesus while wanting to hold on to known sin, then you are not believing in him as Lord and Savior (and his person cannot be separated). It is obviously not perfection. I think we make this harder than it has to be with these kinds of questions. It is an attitude of trust and dependence on the person and work of Christ. It is not just the work of Christ that we believe.

 

My opinion: The participle indicates a state of being while the preposition "eis" indicates a completed movement to a location.

It indicates to me a settled and mature faith.
Not to say that the faith of the less than stable "babe" in Christ is not real.

Every pastor has been grieved by many of the flash in the pan "believer" who came to and left the local Church but in reality had not been baptised into the Body of Christ by the Spirit of God.

HankD

 

If you are wrong about this, and the data very strongly suggests that you are, and that those two words were written by a scribe copying the text, you may have just committed the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. </font>[/QUOTE]Alas, you are incorrect. The
unforgivable sin cannot be committed
by accident. The unforgivable sin must
be a repeated conscious act of the will.

 

Craig,

"I really don’t either, but the brashness with which some people make statements about God frightens me."

I completely agree with that.

Regarding the tenses - sorry I thought you were seeing an aorist somewhere!

I tend to be a bit of a minimalist when it comes to a language in flux like hellenistic Greek. To me this seems like a simple relative clause in English, with the participle being quite appropriate.

I guess one could say that the use of the participle causes the present tense to lose its temporal significance and therefore the linear action of the present seems to imply a more durative "quality of belief" compared to the (sometimes) punctiliar aorist - without the limitation of present time. The perfect to me would seem out of place. Just my opinion.

 

Craigbythesea said:

How do you know ? Are you not judging here ?

Blessings

Sheila

 

When Jesus speaks of "eternal life" in John he always (or nearly always) uses a verb from the present tense in relation to this eternal life. A big question should be asked whether "eternal life" in John is the same as kingdom of God, heaven, etc. or is he speaking of something with a much more this-worldly component? "echei" is also present. "He who believes has eternal life"--not "will have."

Having said this, the reason for making the participle present become obvious--if you have faith (in Christ) you have eternal life--both are linear and possible in the present.

Grace and Peace, Danny

 

Craig;
What is your point?
What I see you leading this thing to is yet another attempt on your part to turn something into a debate about the eternal security of the believer.
This is certainly your perogative but why be so sneeky about it?
Jim

 

Craig,

What thoughts would those be?

Grace and Peace, Danny

 

Craig;
There was nothing unchristian in what I said.
The verse is clear, as one poster said, 'my 10 yr old' could tell you what it is saying.
If you are trying to propose that this verse has something to do with eternal/temporary life, then come on out with it.
"He that hath the Son hath life and He that hath not the Son of God hath not life"
Simple words. All one syllable. Simple concept.

Why oh why must folks make the gospel so wordy and technical?
You either believe in Jesus or you don't.
You either have the Spirit of Christ dwelling within you or you don't.
Jesus never said, "whosoever believes in me and keeps on believing, never wavering nor stumbling, and fully understands all theological doctrines, and keeps the orthodox rules, and.......(fill in the blank) hath everlasting life, but he could lose it if he ain't careful"
Jesus gives us ETERNAL life. Not temporary life. If for ONE nano-second you could lose it then it NEVER was eternal life.
Jim

 

For what it's worth:
The verse John 6:47 is part of a larger context.
Jesus was teaching about Who He was.
To the Jews, He told them that He was the Bread that came down from heaven. This caused them to grumble.
To His own disciples, He said that they needed to eat His flesh and drink His blood. This caused them to grumble, and ultimately, caused many of His disciples to stop following Him.
JN 6:66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

Believing on Jesus and trusting in Him is important. Continuing to follow Him is important.

2TI 2:19 Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness."

God knows those who are His. We know if we are His if we continue to DO the things that please Him. This is not legalism. There are valid and legitimate requirements that God places on believers. Some follow Him, and some don’t follow Him. Only at the Judgment Seat of Christ will some know for sure that they were followers of the Lord Jesus. And some will find out that they had followed “another Jesus”.

Paul, Peter, James, the book of Hebrews, and Jude all teach that followers of Jesus will act a certain way. They also point out that those who don’t follow Jesus will act a certain way.

Believing on Jesus is the first step in a life of following Jesus. The New Testament warns us that we need to keep on following Jesus. This is the way that we know that we have eternal life. What the definition of following Jesus looks like can differ between people. But if you want a fairly clear understanding read 1 Thess. 4 and 5.

The one verse, John 6:47, has importance, but its importance must be considered within the context.