John MacArthur blasts Joel Osteen's teaching..

Hi Tom Bryant

You asked........

1 Thessalonians 4:18
“Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”

And the words were.......
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
V.13 ¶ But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
V.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
V.15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
V.16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
V.17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

But as Radam stated, “sharing the Gospel gives great comfort”, and sure enough the Gospel is shared in this passage.

 

But, in the immediate context, "in the flesh" means to be unregenerate.

 

Since there is no good that means that all who come are in need of Jesus ans they are far from righteous. Even the demons know who Jesus is. Just because someone is not righteous not mean that keeps them from coming to Christ at the urging of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does the convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment and the person has the choice to respond.

Jn 16:7-11, "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged."

1. Isn't that the meaning of teleios? It is an adjective which means complete, the Hebrew idea of perfection--maturity, blameless, unblemished, blameless, being fully developed in a moral sense.

Gene 6:9 These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
Exod 12:5 `Your lamb shall be an unblemished male a year old; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats.
Deut 18:13 "You shall be blameless before the Lord your God.
Matt 5:48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matt 19:21 Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
Roma 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
1Cor 2:6 Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;
1Cor 13:10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
1Cor 14:20 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.
Ephe 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.
Phil 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;
Colo 1:28 We proclaim Him, admonishing every man and teaching every man with all wisdom, so that we may present every man complete in Christ.
Colo 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of your number, a bondslave of Jesus Christ, sends you his greetings, always laboring earnestly for you in his prayers, that you may stand perfect and fully assured in all the will of God.
Hebr 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.
Hebr 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation;
Jame 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.
Jame 1:17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.
Jame 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.
Jame 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.

Not physically blindness but spiritual blindness is. If one would say not, then babies are spiritually blind and doomed to hell.

If one is without excuse in Romans one then that would seem to leave a choice, otherwise if there is no choice then there would be no issue and no need for any commands and exhortations in scripture.

If one lives a homosexual lifestyle and then leaves that lifestyle that it is going from sinfulness to living a life of godliness and that would be two opposing choices. That is unless you believe homosexuality is not a choice and you are born into it and doomed to its consequences.

 

Very good question. I would love to see an answer to this myself.

 

I agree that John MacArthur can be a bit too much of a witch hunter and whistle blower at times but to accuse him of being unbiblical on the same plain with Osteen is quite ridiculous.

 

I agree McArthur is not necessarily unbiblical (of course that depends on how a person views reformed theology) which I reject. Even if wrong, his beliefs are founded in his understanding of scripture.

He can be abrasive in his delivery however. Some years ago I read his book, Charismatic Chaos and found this to be the case.

I also think he comes across as being too dogmatic. For instance, I have heard him say several times that if someone isn't following Christ, they aren't Christians. He seems to give no credence to the fact that it is possible for a Christian to get away from God for a period in their life.

 

Uh...I'd assert that Catholic priests are more biblical than Mormons...just saying.

 

I was watching Larry King that night as well.

I was stunned that Osteen didnt give a clear YES to that question.

Very sad.

 

I'd say its a toss up.

 

He already has a forum outside the walls of his church. His weekly TV program is the perfect platform for gospel preaching. I have watched it for years and never--repeat never--have I heard him preach the gospel or give a clear presentation of the gospel in any length or form.

Ending his TV program by asking viewers to pray a prayer (more like "repeat these words after me") is not the gospel.

 

I'd assert that Roman Catholicism is worse than Mormonism.

 

If you really believe that, then I can't help but wonder just which Jesus you're preachin'.

Oh, then it must be true!

 

I have literally hundreds, if not close to a thousand, Johnny Mac semons and podcasts on my ipod. I have never heard him "run another ministry into the ground".

But, in all fairness to him, as a preacher of the Gospel, he has a responsibility to address Unbiblical doctrines and those who teach them if they come up.

 

Actually, there is a but. A Catholic priest has no moral authority to condemn the teachings of Mormonism when he is an agent of a wicked and Ungodly cult every bit as bad as Mormonism.

 

Although I disagree with John MacArthur on some subjects, I thank God that He has given us JM in our day. Mac has never compromised his beliefs for popularity, and he's never been ashamed of the Gospel of Christ during nationaly televised interviews, unlike Mr. Osteen.

O! That we had more like him!

If you want to know what I think of Mr. Osteen, take a look at my avatar. It's a representative picture of him.

 

the Bible says both will send you to the hot spot...

but popery is worse because it sends more folks to the host spot than other religion, except islam. the way to destruction is broad.

 

The Romish religion is dangerous because though it espouses many of the tenets of the Christian faith, it adds doctrines and practices contrary to holy Scripture. Not to mention, because it claims to be 'Christian', the world is duped by it's false profession out of it's ignorance to what Scripture teaches. The counterfeit is far more dangerous then the obvious opposite.

Romanism is the greatest weapon in his arsenal to counter true biblical Christian faith.

 

good stuff... or should i say? God stuff....


:love2: