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Judging

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Don, Oct 17, 2001.

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  1. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    In the interest of increasing my knowledge (cause as most of y'all know, I'm fond of saying that I'm nearly as smart as I'd like to think I am)....

    I've been told that, in Luke 7:43, Jesus praised a man for judging rightly.

    I believe this is in error, and that when taken in context, Jesus--if anything--was being somewhat sarcastic.

    It is my belief, based on the context of the entire passage (verses 36-50), that Jesus was pointing out to Simon the Pharisee that he had judged (to condemnation) the woman who washed Jesus' feet. I see this in verses 44-47, where Jesus says you gave me no water for my feet, but she washed me with her tears; you gave me no kiss, but she hasn't stopped kissing my feet; you didn't anoint my head with oil, but she anointed my feet. And He tops it off with she was forgiven much and loves much, but to whom little is forgiven--meaning Simon--the same loveth little.

    In my limited understanding, Jesus did NOT praise Simon for "judging rightly," but particularly picked out the word for "judging" to point out that Simon had incorrectly judged in the first place. That's where I see the sarcasm.

    Please tell me where I'm off track.
     
    #1 Don, Oct 17, 2001
  2. Joey M

    Joey M New Member

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    I believe Jesus was telling him he had judged rightly on his answer to Jesus' question. 43"Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. and He saith unto him Thou hast rightly judged."
     
    #2 Joey M, Oct 17, 2001
  3. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Cool, another one of those things that you don't really question a lot but may have great significance! Digging deeper into the Word! Love it, love it, love it!

    Anyway...Don, I think you have a point. It took me a few times of reading this to see it, but I think it is evident in the following verse.

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Luke 7:39
    Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Wow, this was powerful in the fact that Jesus knew the Pharisee's very thoughts! It was more then sarcasm, it showed the Pharisee that his thoughts could not be hidden from God. Prophet indeed! Jesus was so much more as He proved right here!

    Yes, then Jesus showed the Pharisee that he had indeed judged incorrectly to begin with rather then just answering the question correctly.

    Can you imagine being that Pharisee as Jesus goes onto say how You didn't do this but she did, and You didn't do that but she did. Eek! After the judgement he had just placed on this woman in his own mind. Ouch!

    Well, is that what you were getting at, or am I way off track? :D

    ~Lorelei
     
    #3 Lorelei, Oct 18, 2001
  4. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Yes, Lorelei, that's what I was getting at.

    Joey, did Jesus "praise" Simon for "judging rightly"? Or did He simply "tell" him he had chosen correctly? Or did He imply that there was more to it than just "choosing correctly"?

    And Lorelei pointed out something I'd meant to latch onto, too: Can you place yourself in Simon's shoes, and imagine how you would feel if Jesus said the same thing to you?

    [ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Don ]
     
    #4 Don, Oct 18, 2001
  5. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    Don –

    I don’t think the Pharisee was praised - but he did judge rightly. But that is the basis of his own condemnation. Simon reached three conclusions in this matter: 1) if Jesus were a prophet He would know what kind of woman was ministering to Him; 2) if He really knew what kind of woman this was, He would not let her serve Him; and 3) since He does let her anoint Him, He is no prophet and should not be acknowledged as such.

    Jesus’ response indicates that Simon knew the right answers but did not live by them. So he did judge rightly – i.e., he knew what the Bible says, as do many – but did not live by it. He is then placed into the parable by Jesus as He says “You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 "You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. 47 "Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."

    Mary was ignorant of the truth, but loved Christ. Simon knew to do right, but did not love Christ. it was a matter of head vs. heart knowledge.
     
    #5 Chris Temple, Oct 18, 2001
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Here is my take on the story and I think you are correct: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now one of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

    When Simon, the Pharisee who had invited him, saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is--that she is a sinner."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Simon's judgment and critique of Jesus was based on his perception that Jesus DID NOT KNOW the kind of woman anointing his feet. This was typically human . . and wrong! So Jesus stopped the action to teach a principle: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you." "Tell me, teacher," he said.

    "Two men owed money to a certain moneylender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he canceled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"

    Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt canceled."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Simple story for Simon to begin to see beneath the surface issue and the great love that this woman had for her sins forgiveness compared to Simon's own. Not sure he caught on. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"You have judged correctly," Jesus said. Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Making certain that Simon caught the full force of the message, Jesus pointed out the difference real forgiveness will bring - the woman had it and Simon didn't. Sarcasm? Yes, but poignant. Probably tears in Jesus' eyes as He tried to get across this message.

    Simon did judge poorly, then correctly, but I am not sure of his soul's eternal fate. The story ends with Jesus giving forgiveness to the penitent woman . . and nothing more said about Simon the Pharisee.
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, Oct 18, 2001
  7. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Ah, Dr. Bob; you have quite the poet in your soul, don't you?

    Chris, I agree that Jesus' own words--thou hast rightly judged--indicate that Simon did judge correctly...the parable that Jesus put forth to him.

    And thanks everyone for helping me out. For those that didn't get a personal invitation to come hack away at my post, I'm more interested in being right than with I'm right.

    So far, it looks like I'm on the correct track.

    So how could someone come to the conclusion that Luke 7:43 indicates Jesus was praising a man for judging rightly?

    [ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Don ]
     
    #7 Don, Oct 18, 2001
  8. Joey M

    Joey M New Member

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    No! I believe it is as you said, I wasn't saying Jesus praised him that he rightly judged in the first matter, but like you said, Jesus showed him he was wrong in the first matter by him getting the parable correct.

    God speed.
     
    #8 Joey M, Oct 18, 2001
  9. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    I can't see how someone could say he was "praising" him. Not in context anyway. Of course I really never thought about it until I read your thread anyway. [​IMG]

    ~Lorelei
     
    #9 Lorelei, Oct 19, 2001
  10. Chet

    Chet New Member

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    I guess I don't see the sarcasm. Not that it isn't there, but I just don't see sarcasm in Jesus answer. I think Joey is right on this. Chris gave an excellent comment as well, "Jesus’ response indicates that Simon knew the right answers but did not live by them..." Simon did judge the situation with the two men correctly. That was rightly judging.

    Dr.Bob, I love how you bring out the emotional aspect of Jesus here. In my sermons I pause to reflect on the way the author may have said something. It makes a difference.

    I too don't think Jesus was praising the hypocritical Pharisee but I do think Jesus was stating a fact, you have given the correct answer.

    Like Lorelei said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Digging deeper into the Word! Love it, love it, love it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That I agree with the most! May God continue to give us the desire to study His word! ;)
     
    #10 Chet, Oct 19, 2001
  11. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, all. I've also discussed this with some people I go to church with, and my thought of the use of sarcasm is apparently as valid as saying that Jesus, in this verse, praised Simon for judging rightly.

    Now, how would I go about telling the person that originally claimed this that he's incorrect? I've tried before, and all I get from him is that I don't understand the Bible.
     
    #11 Don, Oct 19, 2001
  12. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don:
    Thanks, all. I've also discussed this with some people I go to church with, and my thought of the use of sarcasm is apparently as valid as saying that Jesus, in this verse, praised Simon for judging rightly.

    Now, how would I go about telling the person that originally claimed this that he's incorrect? I've tried before, and all I get from him is that I don't understand the Bible.    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Print out this thread and give it to him!

    ;)
     
    #12 Chris Temple, Oct 19, 2001
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