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Just what are you?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Jan 21, 2011.

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  1. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    glfrederick

    with all due respect, I do not think anything nefarious was intended by introducing #6, simply a way for someone to express that they do not think any of the labels "sufficiently" or "efficiently" describes themselves.
     
    #21 quantumfaith, Jan 21, 2011
  2. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    I get that, but labels aside, the levels of theology expressed in that chart of positions takes into account every possible theology.

    Like I said, I understand why one would not want to identify with the label, but we're not really concerned about the labels are we? (Some apparently are!) The issue is that there are theological positions behind those labels and merely identifying where one falls on that scale is no big deal. It does not mean that one identifies with the label, but then, I wonder why it would be a problem. After all, if that is your position, own it.
     
    #22 glfredrick, Jan 21, 2011
  3. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    I know this was a joke, but many do believe that Erasmus was the father of Humanism that we see today.
     
    #23 Jarthur001, Jan 21, 2011
  4. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    Hello QF,

    I want to ask you something. You speak negative and forceful about Calvinism and determinist, but rather comforting, soft and quiet with sprinkles of hyper-Arminianism.

    Would it be fair to say that you are closer to them, as as far away from Calvinist as you can get?
     
    #24 Jarthur001, Jan 21, 2011
  5. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    #25 Amy.G, Jan 21, 2011
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    The only label I'm willing to bear is that of Christ. All the ism's matter not to me. It is only mans attempt to understand God.
     
    #26 Amy.G, Jan 21, 2011
  7. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    I was asked about Amyraldianism and why it is not in the list. If someone wants to be called this, they may as well come forward with all other views. I did think about placing this in the mix, but must have never held of it.

    Amyraldianism is said to be 4 point Calvinist. They hold to what they call a "Hypothetical universalism".

    I would like to share my views on this. If you have read Amyraut the one that wrote this doctrine, I believe you will find a 5 point Calvinist trying to make others believe in some of Calvinism. Those that hold to this few, and there are a number that do, never talk about it. But what Amyraldianism allows them to do is say when they preach.."God loves every person."

    In some way this makes them feel better.

    But as I said, it is my feeling that this is a mild 5 point lapsarianist Calvinist at its core. They are not bold in their theology and wish not to be laled anything. This is one reason you never hear people claiming to be one.

    There are many out there

    Anyway...If you are one...sure go right ahead and tell us.
     
    #27 Jarthur001, Jan 21, 2011
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Not Allan & he asked some pretty good questions that you've not addressed.

    1st are these guys professing Free Will Doctrine the same as Arminians.

    2nd are RC's doctrines the same as todays Free Will Believers? Erasmus was an agent for the RC Popes so shouldn't their theologies match?

    You haven't addressed any of these concerns dear brother.
     
    #28 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 21, 2011
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I would say that thats my own brothers view
     
    #29 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 21, 2011
  10. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    1st I want to say..and this may shock you...I am a 5 point Calvinist.

    I use to hide from the word, but people always called me that, so now i use the word and even call myself a Calvinist when I preach and write columns.

    One thing that I wish I had said before, because I indeed knew this would happen, is that non-calvinist do not want to be labeled anything. This is what we have seen here...i'm not this...i'm not that...lets all start new names.....i have pinch of this...i just follow Christ...i just read the Bible....i'm just a poor old farm boy....i'm just a rapper that loves Jesus.

    This could be ture, but these things can be said by all believers. The fact is, even if you do not like a label everyone...yes everyone comes close to one of the labels on the list.

    Does any non-Calvinist mind sharing? Are they ashamed of what you believe? Please do not be. Make the call and be proud of your faith. Start a new label like someone said we should, if that is indeed your desire. But please tell us what that label stands for.

    Yes we are all Christians. But we share words toward each other that is hateful at times. If you can share with others what you believe, this is the time.
     
    #30 Jarthur001, Jan 21, 2011
  11. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    yes...well about Allan. send him a message and ask him. Tell him I said it was fine to tell you.
     
    #31 Jarthur001, Jan 21, 2011
  12. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    Ok..this is not fair to leave this post without saying something.

    I started two threads, which caused many non-Calvinist to cry.."NOT FAIR".

    Those threads were on the Roman Church and Humanism

    What happened...or I believe what happened that is, ..is that SOME saw themselves in the post. Like a looking in a mirror they saw what they held as the same as what a grup they do not like held as well.

    That is the doctrines held by humanist and the Roman church was talked about, and they didn't like it, because they held this too. Now I must admit that at first this was not the intent on the humanist thread...which was also looking at Arminianism...which every one but one person runs from and says they are not...but I noticed I had found something and therefore started the Roman Church thread.

    Allan pushed me to a place where I nearly had to say something, but I sent him a message telling him, and he gave me his word he would not say anything.

    Many did not like what they saw, even when it was talking about OTHERS that they say they are not.

    I hope this helps.

    James
     
    #32 Jarthur001, Jan 21, 2011
  13. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    I am, your favorite "perjorative" a "free willer", not to be confused with the movie of a similar name. I do not "like" the reformed doctrines of

    1. Total Depravity
    2. Unconditional Election
    3. Limited Atonement
    4. Irrisistible Grace


    Do I share at least some "commonalities" with any of these, certainly. What I fail to appreciate even more is "attitude of presentation" demonstrated by the confirmed reformers.

    So, all in all, I would have to answer your question, Yes....to both.
     
    #33 quantumfaith, Jan 21, 2011
  14. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    I'll take that Thanks QF


    Peace....James
     
    #34 Jarthur001, Jan 21, 2011
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Mercy, Peace and Love in Abundance.

    (man that was hard) :) (sarcasm)
     
    #35 quantumfaith, Jan 21, 2011
  16. glfredrick

    glfredrick New Member

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    Why does it always seem to come down to "attitude?" That is not the reason to accept or reject a doctrine!

    I'm also sort of wondering why anyone claiming Calvinism would have an "attitude" (though I know some do)? The primary tenet of the DoG is that GOD DOES IT ALL. How do we gain an attitude from that?

    Perhaps the real "attitude" comes from a perspective that suggests that humans "smart" enough to "choose Christ" are better than those who admit that they are born dead in their sin and trespasses, and that had God not drawn and made possible justification by grace alone, or we have no hope at all...

    We've had a lot of discussions about the issue, but it all comes down to one or two very basic points. We are either born in sin, and can do nothing or we are born "sick" and just have to reach out to God. Either God reaches us or we reach Him. The entirety of any position right of Arminianism stipulates that salvation is all God, and that without God's grace there would be no salvation. It is the semi-Pelagian and Pelagian positions that say that human effort is enough to reach God.

    Seeing as how Semi-Pelagianism and Pelagianism are well-known heresies, no one wants to take those labels, but there are many who would answer diagnostic questions as to their beliefs in that manner even if they disavow the label.
     
    #36 glfredrick, Jan 21, 2011
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Im getting permission from you now? Why dont you publicaly address it.....or does that diminish the punch line? :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #37 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 21, 2011
  18. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Ever heard of God's Permissive Will?
     
    #38 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 21, 2011
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Here is another one....guess my Theology. OK?

    “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.” -John 15:16
     
    #39 Earth Wind and Fire, Jan 21, 2011
  20. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    You're an apostle? :)

    Apostle-ite? Apostle-ist?
     
    #40 Amy.G, Jan 21, 2011
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