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Featured Kingdom Living

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by SGO, Dec 25, 2020.

  1. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Do we live in the Kingdom of God now just a little, trying to follow the commands in the scriptures as we are able and look forward to the future kingdom where we shall see or how does it really work?

    For now we see through a glass, darkly;
    but then face to face:
    now I know in part;
    but then I shall know
    even as also I am known.
    1 Corinthians 13:12

    Do we acknowledge the spiritual now but still follow the material?
    How else could we not?


    *Jesus is Lord but we still have to eat so we work and do what is necessary:

    He provides. Philippians 4:19
    But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

    *Jesus is Lord but we still have to wear clothes and bathe (at least most of us):

    We put on Christ and He cleanses our daily sin as we confess. Colossians 3:10 ...and have put on the new man
    1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    *Jesus is Lord but we still need to protect from attack:
    He watches our safety closely: Psalm 145:20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy. Romans 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

    There are more questions but won't they come up later if this thread develops?
     
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  2. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    I guess I embarrassed myself again.

    SGO, "Go walk by faith (2 Corinthians 5:7)
    and work out your own salvation (Philippians 2:12).

    So I will glean from the forum to help with the above statement.

    You may refer to me as 'the Old Gleango".
     
  3. Quantrill

    Quantrill Active Member

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    I think it is a good topic to discuss. Whenever I hear of Kingdom living or anything having to do with the Kingdom, I always want to ask, which Kingdom. Kingdom of God. Kingdom of Heaven. Kingdom in mystery form. But, I understand what you are asking.

    We are spiritual, but can't ignore our physical existence in a lost world and race. We trust God, but we go to work. God provides a job. God provides our money to buy food.

    When I was a new Christian, I used to wonder why I felt so spiritual in the early morning while studying the Bible with a cup of coffee, but by 2 or 3 in the afternoon on the job, I didn't feel spiritual at all.

    I think we have to recognize that our physical existence is just as important to God as our spiritual existence. The physical things we encounter in the world, have spiritual origins and results.

    And of course after a days walk in the world, it is always good to wash your feet. (John 13:5-10)

    Quantrill
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Good thread.

    I believe that much of our theology is independent of the Kingdom of God (and therefore independent of the gospel of Christ). The Kingdom of God is here and it is here in a very full sense. The Kingdom of God is God dwelling with man. What is lacking is not in the Kingdom but in men.
     
  5. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Member

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    " What is lacking is not in the Kingdom but in men." Good point Jon.

    Luke 17.20-21
    20.Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of GOD was coming, and He answered, “The Kingdom of GOD is not coming with things that can be observed,
    21.nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For in fact the Kingdom of GOD is among you.” (KSB) (NRSV "within you")

    KJV, GNB, Gideons - "The Kingdom of GOD is within you."
    NIV - "The Kingdom of GOD is in your midst." (or is within you).
    ESV - "The Kingdom of GOD is in the midst of you."


    It means that as long as a person obeys the Lord, live according to His Statutes and Commandments, conducting works of faith and charity, have love and understanding, propagate Gospel, and carries His Lord in the heart (soul) always, the Kingdom of GOD is within that person.

    But of course it may be understood in a different ways that Christ actually talk about Himself when He said, "the Kingdom of GOD is among you," which is also will be right conclusion, Christ is the Kingdom of GOD, but most likely the words "within you" contain the original meaning of entire passage.

    Is where any other word what can describe the dwelling of GOD? If GOD is King of the Earth and Heaven, so of course He must have His own Kingdom. What kind of King He will be without His own Kingdom?

    GOD has His Own place in Heaven there He rule. In some places of the Bible GOD'S Kingdom called as Heaven. It is impossible to define borders of the GOD'S Spiritual Kingdom, because no such borders exist, and so, word "Heaven" and word "Kingdom" have the same meaning - GOD'S dwelling place, His Spiritual World. Kingdom of GOD also was called as a Paradise (Luke 23.42-43).

    GOD also have His dwelling place and on Earth.

    Jeremiah 3.17
    17."At that time they (nations) shall call Jerusalem 'The Throne of the Lord,' and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem for the name of the Lord, nor shall they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart."

    ~ 17. Nations will come to Zion and will worship the Lord the GOD of Israel: (Isaiah 14.1, 18.7, 19.19-23, 55.5, 60.3.6-7.9-13.16, 66.23) (Jeremiah 3.17) (Zechariah 2.11, 8.22, 14.16-19) (Revelation 11.6-13, 15.4).

    Ezekiel 43.7
    7.And He said to me, "son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell among the sons of Israel forever. And the house of Israel will not again defile My holy name, neither they nor their kings by their harlotry and by the corpses of their kings when they die,"

    Joel 3.21
    21."I will avenge their blood and I will not clear the guilty, the Lord dwells in Zion."


    To whom GOD actually gave the Earth?

    Job 9.24
    24."The Earth is given into the hand of the wicked. He covers the faces of its judges. If it is not He, then who it is?"

    Psalms 115.16
    16."The Heavens are the Lord's Heavens, but the Earth He has given to human beings."

    But it does not mean that GOD do not rule and on Earth, He is certainly involve in affairs of the people, but to some extend allow people to do their own things.


    Matthew 21.43
    43."Therefore I tell you, the Kingdom of GOD will be taken away from you and given to a people that produces the fruits of the Kingdom."

    What is "the fruits (merits, works, deeds, actions) of the Kingdom of GOD"? Obedience to GOD and to His Commandments, righteousness, understanding, mercy, compassion, love, charity, good works of faith, and so on.


    Eventually GOD will establish His kingdom and on Earth, and people will be no longer rule alone without GOD.

    Luke 1.32-33
    Words of the angel Gabriel to Mary concerning her Son Jesus Christ.
    32."He (Jesus Christ) will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord GOD will give Him the throne of His father David,

    33.He (Jesus Christ) will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His Kingdom there will be no end.”
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello Alex
    What if all these verses speak of the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem?
    How would that modify your view?
    Have you ever considered the verses you offered in that way?
    The Kingdom has began and is growing.
    New birth is essential to "see the Kingdom"
    The Kingdom is both within us,but it works itself out in the physical world as well.
    Every view has to account for all the verses.Some put it off to a future time.Some go for an already and not yet. Others go all in.
     
    #6 Iconoclast, Dec 31, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
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  7. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    "The Kingdom is both within us, but it works itself out in the physical world as well."

    You mean in addition to working inside of other people too?
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
    Yes the Kingdom starts small in the middle east but spreads worldwide as the gospel converts one person at a time.
    The changes will in time have an effect on all the nations.psa.22:27-31
     
  9. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Physical changes solely as a byproduct of the interior new birth and "growth".
    The directly physical comes in the next age when He returns?
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Do you have a verse you are thinking of?
    You think.physical changes are going to occur before the eternal state?
     
  11. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    No verse.
    Are not we in an aspect of the eternal state now, as in "And I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish." (John 10:28)?

    Physical changes directly upon His Second Coming.

    You buy a bible: that is a physical change coming from the spiritual?

    You have a sense to avoid going in a particular direction.
    The sense is "spiritual" and directly affects the physical.

    I don't know.
    I'd rather have someone ask a more pointed question.
     
  12. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Member

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    Spiritual always comes first, I mentioned it in my previous posts.

    Matthew 15.18-20 (Mark 7.21-23)
    18."But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this is what defiles.


    19.Out of the heart come evil intentions, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.


    Luke 6.45
    45."The good person out of the good treasure of the heart produces good, and the evil person out of evil treasure produces evil, it is out of the abundance of the heart that the mouth speaks."


    All our physical actions is the result of our mind. Mind, in this context is our soul ("heart"). Physical body itself is nothing without soul, it is the soul that controls the body.

    Physical body is like a car, if no driver in the car, the car is just a piece of worthless scrap metal, it cannot drive itself. The "soul" of the car is its driver, and driver operate and directs the car the way he wanted.

    Our soul is the driver of our physical body. All our decisions comes from our soul, as verses above indicated. These decisions of our soul pass to our physical body in order to produce physical action and physical result of it.

    It is a process that applies to everyday of our life. For example, decision to come to the doctor comes from our soul and passes to the physical body to conduct the physical visit. Decision to go shopping comes from our soul, and body executes it. Decision to watch a movie comes from the soul, and body performs the necessary action.

    Believing, obeying, and loving the Lord comes from the soul, they are Spiritual Properties of GOD and of every true Christian. The soul commands the physical body to execute these Spiritual Properties in their physical form or Spiritual Commandments of GOD, whatever they are.

    When the physical body activated by the soul, physical body produces physical result of the Spiritual Properties that drives the physical body. The Spiritual Properties of GOD and of every true Christian are very well known to all who read the Bible: mercy, compassion, forgiveness, charity, love, works of faith, and so on.

    Everyone who has these Spiritual Properties of GOD in their heart (soul), already have the Kingdom of GOD as his/her spiritual residency place.

    From these basic Spiritual Properties, the Kingdom of GOD is made and functioning upon.

    Love - Love you GOD and your neighbor - Mark 12.32-34, James 2.5.

    Faith - Rich in Faith - Love the Lord - James 2.5.

    Believe like a child - Faith in GOD'S Word - Matthew 18.3, 19.13-15, Mark 10.13-16, Luke 18.15-17.

    Righteousness - Joy in the Holy Spirit - "The Kingdom of GOD is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Romans 14.17).

    Forgiveness - Forgive and be Forgiven - Matthew 18.21-35.

    Obedience - Jesus Christ and the young wealthy man. Obey Commandments of the Lord - Matthew 19.16-17.20-24, Mark 10.17-27.

    Works of Faith - Laboring for the Lord - Matthew 21.28-32.43. "The Kingdom of GOD depends not on talk (not on demagogy), but on power (but on deeds)." (1Corinthians 4.20).

    Wait for the Lord to come - Be always on alert for Christ - Matthew 25.1-30.34, Mark 15.43.

    Give to the Lord back that He had invested in you - The labor of your Works of Faith - Matthew 25.14-30.34.

    Spreading the Gospel - Missionary work - Mark 4.26-29, Luke 8.1.10, 10.7-11 (help the sick), 14.15-24.

    Ability to sacrifice yourself for the sake of the Lord - Stay firm in your Faith - Revelation 12.10-11, Matthew 10.39, 16.25-26, Mark 8.35-37, Luke 9.24, John 12.25.

    If you have these Spiritual Properties, you have the Kingdom of GOD, even if you still on Earth.

    Spiritual connection with GOD and His Kingdom starts from these basic Spiritual Qualities.

    If we prove these Spiritual Qualities by our Physical Works (Works of Faith), we are half a way to the Kingdom of GOD.

    Mark 12.32-34
    32.Then the scribe said to Him, “You are right Teacher, You have truly said that He is One and besides Him there is no other,

    33.and to love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, this is much more important than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifice.”

    34.When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the Kingdom of GOD.”
     
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  13. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Natural first then spiritual:

    Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual,
    but that which is natural;
    and afterward that which is spiritual.
    1 Corinthians 15:46

    We are born first - natural
    Then born again - spiritual, "new birth"

    That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
    and that that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    John 3:7
     
  14. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    These are good but there may be more involved.

    If the above is all why is there so much disputing in the kingdom and even on this forum?
    It can't be all from the enemy, right?
     
  15. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to 37818's post in the theology section:

    * Isaiah 65:17, "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."

    We are not going to remember all these issues in eternity.
     
  16. Alex2165

    Alex2165 Member

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    Yes SGO, if you want to put it in this way, I have no argument with you.

    Indeed, natural birth comes first, and then spiritual birth comes next, if a person found GOD, obeys Him and worship Him.

    But this was not that I meant in my post. I meant that in worship and service of GOD for fully developed Christian, the Spiritual Qualities of soul and Spiritual Commandments of GOD always come first, which will express and reveal themselves in physical works of faith.

    Previously, in my posts, I often mentioned statement of GOD Who said that He desire mercy and not sacrifice, and here I mentioned it again, because it summaries, underlines, and signifies the importance and magnitude of Spiritual Commandments over Physical Commandments of the Law.

    But of course you are also right in your statement that natural comes first, because before then we become spiritual beings, we have to go through natural growth of maturity, growth of mind, and growth of understanding, and only then, if able, become spiritually transformed and spiritually enhanced by the Word of GOD.

    GOD bless.
     
  17. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I am a bit of a hot head but if one is born again the paradigm is reversed, as you suggested.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    5 Things Everyone Should Understand About the Kingdom of God — Dean Lentini
    The Kingdom of God is the primary message of Jesus throughout the gospels. Gordon Fee a well-respected theologian states rightly, “You cannot know anything about Jesus, if you miss the kingdom of God…” Jesus’ main message is so foundational that we cannot truly understand Him without understanding the message He declared. So what is the Kingdom of God? That is an easy and a difficult question. One that I’ve been wrestling with for months. Here are some main concepts that I have found helpful in understanding the Kingdom of God:

    THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS GOD'S KINGDOM.
    This might seem too simplistic. Yet, one must understand this before proceeding in understanding the kingdom. God is the King of His Kingdom. He rules sovereignly over His Kingdom. Since, this kingdom finds its power from God it is powerful. It is a righteous kingdom because its King rules in righteousness. It is good because this King defines what is good. It will never end because God will never cease to rule sovereignly throughout the cosmos. The Kingdom of God will be triumphant in the King’s purposes because this King never fails.

    THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS TANGIBLE.
    It seems that the Jews during Jesus’ ministry all had similar ideas about the Kingdom of God. They thought of it as a political kingdom of earth ruled by the Messiah that would see Israel claiming victory over its enemies. Most of the questions asked about the kingdom to Jesus revolve around timing of the kingdom. Yet, Jesus rarely speaks about time in regards to the kingdom. Instead, He often speaks about the kingdom in relation to location. He says that the Kingdom is “near” or “at hand” both are terms that have location at the center of their meaning. Jesus thinks of the kingdom as a place. It’s something tangible that can be seen, entered, and is also very close.

    THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS SALVIFIC.
    Much of Jesus’ teachings on the kingdom are given through parable. While this makes it difficult to ascertain certain characteristics about the kingdom, it does give us a unique feel for the kingdom. Throughout Matthew 13 and other passages he describes the Kingdom of God by saying it is “like” and then tells a parable. In these passages the conclusion of the story is often either delivering for the characters within the parable or one of suffering and anguish or as Matthew states “weeping and gnashing of teeth.” This place of despair can easily be interpreted as Hell so then the place of delivery or the Kingdom of God would be Heaven. Other passages describe the kingdom as salvific in nature. Even Jesus’ words to the thief on the cross point to this, when asked by the thief to “remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus replies, “Today, you will be with me in paradise.” The Kingdom of God is a place of delivery.

    THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS CONNECTED TO ISRAEL.
    Most scholars agree that Jesus did not derive the kingdom concept, but continued the theme from past revelation in Scripture. The Old Testament is where we find this idea of the kingdom originate. It goes back to the Garden where as John MacArthur says, “God’s kingdom program started in Genesis 1 when the King of the universe created the world in six days. There is a King - God. And there is the realm of the King - earth.” The calling of Abraham begins to show the coming nation of Israel as God’s vessel for continuing the Kingdom narrative throughout the Old Testament. Then in II Samuel 7 eternally connects Israel with the Kingdom of God through the Davidic Covenant. This is why in Acts 1 when following 40 days of the Resurrected Christ specifically teaching his disciples about the kingdom, the disciples ask Jesus if He will restore the kingdom to Israel. His response is not negative toward their understanding of the kingdom, but only with their desire to know timing. Could the disciples be wrong about this basic concept of the kingdom being connected to Israel after 40 days of specific teaching on the subject? I don't think so and the entirety of Scripture would point to this conclusion.

    THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS THE GOSPEL.
    Not only is the nature of the Kingdom salvific, but the message of the Kingdom of God is said to be the gospel throughout the Word of God. In various sections of Scripture the message about the Kingdom of God is said to be “the gospel of the kingdom” such at Matthew 4:23 and Mark 1:15. Paul is said to have proclaimed “the kingdom in Acts 20:25 and “the kingdom of God” in Acts 28:30. Acts 19:8-10 is unique in that it uses “the kingdom of God,’ “The Way,” and “the word of the Lord” interchangeably. The Kingdom is not just the focus of Jesus’ ministry, it is also the central focus of the Gospel according to Luke. The Gospel is about how the King has provided the means to become citizens of His Kingdom once more.

    We often speak of the Gospel but do we speak of the Kingdom? Do we know what it is? If your definition of the Kingdom is solely wrapped up in eschatology I would repeat Fee’s words to you “You cannot know anything about Jesus, if you miss the kingdom of God…”

    - Dean

    Cited Works:

    1. Patrick Schriener, The Kingdom of God and the Glory of the Cross

    2. John MacArthur, Biblical Doctrine: A Systematic Summary of Bible Truth
     
  19. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    Now yes but physical changes will occur at His return and I can assume we are in a type of eternal state which we won't remember much of in the new eternity (Isaiah 65:17).

    The physical change:

    Behold,
    I shew you a mystery;
    We shall not all sleep,
    but we shall all be changed,
    In a moment,
    in the tinkling of an eye,
    at the last trump:
    for the trumpet shall sound,
    and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
    and we shall be changed.
    1 Corinthians 15:51-52
     
  20. SGO

    SGO Well-Known Member

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    This essay list above is way too high for me. Good perhaps for someone who lives the life 24/7.

    I need ideas in simple terms for my simple mind.

    Like this issue:

    For though we walk in the flesh,
    we do not war after the flesh:
    (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God
    to the pulling down of strongholds)
    2 Corinthians 10:3-4

    This causes many problems and has been discussed on this forum.
    A literalist might come to think of those verses as a ban on physical weapons for Christians.
    Another might say yes but that is for spiritual warfare only.
    When someone physically attacks, speaking bible verses to them will not pull them down.
    And we have a responsibility to protect our loved ones, right?
    Overcome evil with good (Romans 12:21) does not work in a flash of a second.

    Sort of the middle might be:

    If it be possible,
    as much as lieth in you,
    live peaceably with all men.
    Romans 12:18
     
    #20 SGO, Jan 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
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