Koinonia retreat

While I wouldn't attribute any sinister motives to the organizers and leaders of these retreats, it is troubling that they operate outside the church. Christ established His church to ensure the continuity of His kingdom and promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. He made no such provision for parachurch organizations.

Tom, I would certainly include Promise Keepers, Campus Crusade for Christ and Fellowship of Christian Atheletes among these groups. While they are not as cultish as some, they tend to draw members' focus and energy away from the church where it belongs.

 

As one who has not only participated on a weekend like this, but now serves as a community pastor, I can say that there is great benefit to the "seperation" you are concerned about. I am sure there are times that you feel like "getting away", and this is all that is intended. By giving up your watch, cell phone, and outside world contact what you are left with is simply you and the Lord. Think of it as a fast or an extended time in your prayer closet... kind of. In any case, you are not "totally" cut off. The team that will serve you for the weekend will ensure that every need you have will be taken care of, including emergencies.

If you want to do further research, check out the history of the Cursillo movement in Spain and the various other 4th Day renewal weekends. The one that I am affiliated with is called Faith Walk (www.faithwalkinternational.net). The weekends are not for everybody, but it has been a fantastic tool to see independant and isolated believers enter into intentional accoutability and discipleship relationships within their churches. As a senior pastor myself, the members that attend a Faith Walk weekend return better Christians and church members.

 

While you are certainly entitled to your thoughts and opinions (and I do respect them), much of your information is not fully correct. To begin the RCC did not start the Cursillo movement and I would guess that there are cardinals, bishops, and priests that wish it never began. Whatever "evangelical" movement there is in the RCC is partially due to Cursillo. Don't forget that there is much diversity amongst catholics... maybe as much as on the Protestant side.

As far as the content of the typical weekend goes, they are NOT "man" centered. As a pastor who served on these weekends I can say with certainty to seeing men and women come to Christ in salvation, as well as enjoy revival and renewal. The weekends themselves are not rooted in anything occultic and anyone who wants to leave can certainly do so. The content is really not all that different from other church retreats I have been on. There are some "surprises" during the course of the weekend, but certainly nothing weird, manipulating, or Biblically unsound (if that was not the case, I would certainly not be apart of it).

As to your final question, they aren't for everyone. There are some who were led to Christ, discipled, and are now fulfilling the GC just as they should be. However, as I am sure you are aware, there are a great many who made a "decision" at some point in there lives and have never grown beyond that point, simply because the church in large part has FAILED to fulfill the totality of the GC. Faith Walk is simply a tool to introduce these concepts in a Christ-honoring way through testimonies, prayer, worship, and times of reflection and response.

While I cannot speak for any of the other 4th day movements, our's is Biblcally centered and singularly focused. If you have not attended a weekend, I would encourage you to withhold judgement until you have the opportunity to do so (if you do). I am sure there are "bad" weekends out there, but Faith Walk is not one of them. Everything we do is intended to bring the typical Baptist Church member and get them to a place where they are passionate followers of Jesus Christ, faithful church members, soul-winners, and disciple-makers.

 

So do they speak Greek there? Is the whole retreat centered around LXX and Greek? Just curious. :laugh:

 

The movement was started by "laymen" not clergy and while the RC Cursillo is now a part of some of the dioceses (sp?) it is still a lay led movement based in Dallas, TX. Specifically, "rooted" yes... "founded" no. I never said it wasn't Roman Catholic, I intended to communicate that it wasn't started by the Vatican.

That aside, Cursillo is based on Catholic doctrine, Faith Walk is based on Baptist doctrine and priorities. It seems that Koinonia is a mixed bag of Presbyterianism and Catholicism, so I would certainly not recommend it to anyone outside those denominational traditions... and even then...

To answer your last question, it is a matter of logistics. The weekend is such that to do it on a church campus would not be convenient. However, I can say that there are similar weekends that are hosted on church properties. The locale to me is not necessarlily relavant. We have several churches that are involved that have "busy" campuses and to try to host a weekend in an environment like that would be like trying to have a worship service in Grand Central. While you might be able to pull it off, there are better places. The place is not as important as the environment. During my personal quiet times, I actually like "quiet" places... don't you?

As a pastor, I try to put the best conferences and events in front of my people that will supplement my own preaching/teaching ministry in the church. Those things are carefully scrutinized and are usually recommended by the local association here in West Tennessee with many SBC chruches participating. Our ladies most recently participated in the Beth Moore simulcast just a few weeks ago. I really don't see much of a difference, exept in the length of the weekend.

 

First, I don't know as much about them. However, I don't think they operated the same way as these groups since their thing was large rallies and as far as I know, they were not secretive.

The main criticism I heard about them was interfaith issues, like including Roman Catholics. Wasn't the guy who started the whole thing Roman Catholic?

 

From wikipedia:
Cursillos in Christianity (in Spanish: Cursillos de Cristiandad, from "curso" = course, and the diminutive ending "-illo", small course of Christianity) is a ministry of the Roman Catholic Church. It was founded in Majorca, Spain by a group of laymen in 1944, while they were refining a technique to train pilgrimage leaders. It has since been adapted by numerous other Christian denominations, some of which have retained the name "cursillo" while others have given the program a different name. The word "cursillo" means "short course" in Spanish.

In RC Cursillo movement, Eduardo Bonnin is seen as one of the primary personalities in the 1940s-1950. However, there are many seperate and distinct weekends from nearly every denomination and tradition.

 

PeterM, my response in your post above was in answer to a question about Promise Keepers.

 

Forgive me... I went and reread and I finally got it. I didn't realize we went off-topic.

 

I've been asked to drop in on this thread and comment. Since I've seen nothing theological or exegetical yet, I'll approach the issue from that direction.

What you first read on the Colorado Koinonia website under "Welcome" is,

[SIZE=-1]"Colorado Koinonia is a multi-denominational community that through prayer, fellowship, and sharing of common experiences helps individuals feel God’s purpose for their life. In feeling God’s grace, individuals can focus on becoming more committed Christians seeking to bring Christ into their families, their churches, their work and their communities." The second half of this statement I like, but the first half I don't agree with. I believe that koinonia in this sense is the task of the local church, and it is dangerous to foster local church-type fellowship outside of the church.[/SIZE]​

First of all, let me comment on the meaning of the word. Here is the Anlex lexicon meaning: "κοινωνία , ας , ἡ (1) as a relationship characterized by sharing in common fellowship, participation (1J 1.3), opposite κακία (dislike, hatefulness); (2) as giving so that others can share generosity, fellow feeling (2C 9.13; PH 2.1); more concretely willing contribution, gift (RO 15.26)."

Secondly, the actual word koinonia appears in the NT 19 times (twice in 1 John 1:3). Most of those times are irrelevant to this discussion, since the Greek koinonia has a broader range of meaning than the English "fellowship." However, in Acts 2:42 it is clearly within the local church: "And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

Again, in Paul's letter to the Philippians we have the word three times: 1:5, 2:1, 3:10. Again, Paul is clearly encouraging fellowship within the local church. In fact, I believe fellowship is one of the main purposes of the local church.

I don't object to Bible conferences, camps, retreats or soul-winning conferences or other short-term training outside the church. These are temporary and profitable for building up the church. But to foster permanent fellowships outside of the local church such as Colorado Koinonia appears to be will in the long run, I believe, draw people away from their local churches. There is nowhere in Scripture that allows for such fellowships.

Good night. It's late here in Japan. :sleeping_2:

 

That's okay. I just wanted to answer his question even though it was off topic.

 

I think this is an excellent point, John. Thanks for your comments!

 

This retreat is actaully Catholic based (and run) and centers primarily around socializing and spiritual experiences. I have a friend who is now a born-again believer who attended this as a Catholic youth and remembers it as Adults and Teens Encounter Christ (ATEC). She remember it being about 'experiences' and spiritual feelings by reflection times, fun, and socializing.

It is run however according to Catholic ideas and views but these are not as noticable in the fun retreat style environment. Though it does center also on the Christ in Scripture andprmarily his death (not so much His resurrection) it's main focus is about you having an spiritual 'experience' regardless of if you are saved or not.

Here is an article on it from Intermountain Catholic News

So yes, it is very ecumunical bording of new-age spirtualism.

However I will say that it also focuses strongly on togetherness and fun. Basically a not much different than a social gospel feel good environment.

That said - each retreat can be different in it's primary theme but they still strive for the above desired result in all of them.

 

Maybe Web, you might want to ask you Elders what it is they desire people to get out of this Catholic lead retreat.

Secondly, why are you, as a church, supporting a Catholic run retreat. Now if it was a community run thing that bring people together in a 'community' spirit. Then I would see nothing wrong there. However If it has to do with doctrinal teaching they had better meet some specific standards regarding faith and practice specifially regarding salvation. - But that is me.


This however bothers me about THIS particular retreat (found in the "History" section of the website):

New-age spiritualization.

This is also problematic:

While it does serve a great purpose of encouraging beleivers to do more than just talk about love. However, it leaves off that which gives us purpose and value to the work of love and that is meaning and reason for it that should be shared - the gospel.

 

This is a palanca, according to this Cursillo source:

It sounds like a catholic thing. I would say this in itself is not something to trigger a high (unless they perform it in an emotinal or mystical manner). I think what triggers a high would be any emotional bonding excercises that might be done, mystical type excercises, or similar things.