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"Lead Us Not ...."

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by ktn4eg, Nov 30, 2004.

  1. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg New Member

    Nov 19, 2004
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    "And lead us not into temptation..." Matthew 6:13a & Luke 11:4b

    "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations....Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man," James 1:2, 12-13

    I know that I'm missing something here, but what that is I am unable to articulate, and therefore I'd like to read what you folks out there have to say about this.

    In the Matthew and Luke passages cited above (part of what's commonly called "The Lord's Prayer"), what exactly is Jesus asking His Father to do?

    I know that there are two different meanings commonly applied to the word "temptation." One is defined as "an enticement to do evil." If you apply that definition, it doesn't make any sense. Why would the Son of God pray that His Father not lead us into something He's not going to do anyway? (James 2:13)

    "Temptation" can also refer to a "testing or trying of one's faith" (cf. I Peter 1:6-7). If you apply that definition, why would the Son of God pray that His Father not lead us into something over which James says we should rejoice (1:2), whose recepients he considers blessed (1:12), and what Peter says is something "much more precious than gold" (I Peter 1:7)?

    As I said, I know I'm missing something here, but exactly what is it that I'm overlooking?
  2. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

    Apr 9, 2002
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    I remember Lord's Prayer of Matthew 6:9-14 & Luke 11:2-4.

    Matthew 6:13 reminds me of Rev. 3:10.

    I am little bit off the topic, but I would like to discuss on temptation.

    Pretrib uses Rev. 3:10 to prove us that we shall be keep from the temptation - rapture us from the seven year of tribulation period. But, not what Christ actual saying.

    Notice the last part of Matt. 6:13 says, "...but deliver us from evil". This is not discuss about seven year of tribulation or God's wrath, this is speak of protection us from persecutions or take care of us while facing trials.

    Matt. 6:13 is much same with John 17:15 speak of protect us from trials, troubles, and persecutions.

    I notice pretrib doing its own guesswork by interpreting Rev. 3:10 to 'prove' us that we shall be 'KEEP FROM the hour of temptation' that we shall be rapture before seven year of tribulation period.

    But, they misinterpreting Rev. 3:10, what Christ actual talking about.

    Rev. 3:10 talks about Christ's promise to us, if we keep God's Word(Commandment), He shall protect us while facing trials, troubles, tribulations, & persecutions.

    We do not have to wait for the coming 'hour of temptation'= "seven year of tribulation period". Early Church include Church of Philadelphia during John's time, already faced temptations. Every Christians face temptations. We all facing temptations throughout our lifetime.

    Rev. 3:10-11 is much same with Rev. 2:10, both speak of endure with temptations, not give up while face trials, will receive crown of life(eternal life). Both refer to James 1:12.

    There is no proof of Rev. 3:10 speaks of rapture, or the wrath of God. This verse talks about the promise from God, if we keep His Word, He shall protect us while face temptations, or if we do not keep His Word, He shall not protect us while face temptations, that mean we could be easy fall into temptations having troubles.

    I know the Lord's Prayer since I was teen in Confirmation class at Lutheran school many years ago.

    Interesting notice the last part of Matt. 6:13 says, "For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, FOR EVER. Amen."

    Does, Christ saying the kingdom shall be last for only a thousand years? Nope. Christ tells us, the kingdom is an eternality according to Daniel 7:14, 18.

    Premil believes the kingdom is postponed till second coming of Christ, because Israel rejects Jesus as their Messiah.

    Christ does not saying that. When Christ begun his ministry, He said, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is AT HAND: repent ye, and believe the gospel." - Mark 1:15

    Christ speaks of 'time' is fulfilled about the prophecies of the Old testament concerning the coming of Messiah and the salvation is now fulfilled, that Christ already came to earth for the salvation, and also, it opens for the Gentiles to believe the salvation.

    The kingdom is not an observing, but, it is spiritual from above, that the gospel is already bring to the world through Jesus Christ.

    Kingdom already present through us, that we are preaching the gospel of the kingdom over the world, since Christ gave us the power of the Holy Spirit (Matt 16:18-19; & Acts 1:8).

    Lord's Prayer speak of the basic or common prayer toward our Lord, what we should talking to Him the proper way.

    There is no evidence of Rev. 3:10 telling us, that we shall be rapture before seven year of tribulation period. This verse speaks of protect us while face tempations in our lifetime.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
  3. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Apr 19, 2002
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  4. NateT

    NateT New Member

    Oct 25, 2000
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    In the NASB
    James 1.2 is:
    and James 1.12-13 is:
    I checked and it looks like the word translated trial can also be translated temptation.

    Prehaps that clears it up some??