Leaving a Church

I understand the hurt feelings- I experienced them firsthand as a teenager. I also used them at various times growing up to excuse my own sinful rebellion (not implying that's what you're doing, BTW). One of the most pivotal moments during my teen years, in fact, involved my father's decision to leave a church. Although my family is still smarting from the consequences and fragmentation nearly 20 years later, I would not be where I'm at today in my walk with the Lord (serving God as a pastor) if he had not left and took us with him.

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic. I just think that oftentimes (again, not in your situation specifically) we fail to seek biblical resolution for our conflict because we wish to hold grudges or see the offending party get "what's coming." And all too often, its the "best ones" that leave and let the little lambs be ravaged by the wolves.

I'm glad you've found a new home. May God prosper you there as you remain faithful to Him.

 

Is the refusal to preach against witchcraft, Harry Potter, violent video games, Ouija boards, psychics, YuGiOh, and other abominations and sorceries--is that a good reason to leave a church? If all the church preaches against is abortion, gay marriage, liberals, Democrats, and body piercings, some of which are extremely evil, others are open to debate, is this a good reason to leave a church? If the church thinks CCM is the key to growth? I really need to know.

 

I don't think it's OUR place to tell a preacher what he needs to preach on. I've broached subjects, like Harry Potter, with the minister who left us for an OK. state position and he later brought out what scripture had to say on that and some of the other 'in' things. I'm in a church where the pulpit denouces and calls sin, sin.

Is this what you mean vaspers?
Diane

 

I don't think I would like to attend a church that preached about any of the above things.

Our pastor preaches the Good News of Jesus and leads us in Bible Study about leading the Christian Life, trusting God, Walking with God, Listening to God, Working for God!

IMO, Pastors should be careful what they introduce to their congregations that are not of God.

 

I agree with you, Thankful. We are a diverse people. God has called us out of a lot of different place and cultures. Our ministers should be teaching the Word of God, not leading political rallies.

Yes the Word teaches us to not be worldly. When I was a kid that meant things like dancing. Well times change and right now I'd had rather my child attend a well chaperoned "dance" or party where there will be dancing than any major league sporting event. Why? because at any sporting event there are going to be a whole lot of people drinking, cursing etc. You can't even watch this kind of stuff on TV(remember Janet Jackson's fiasco?)

People have to decide for themselves what worldly means for them with consideration of their circumstances and with the guidence of the Holy Spirit and the Bible. That is why we pray and study the Word.

As far as Harry Potter and Yugioh go, those things are fiction. Yes, people should be warned that if you take these things out of context and to seriously it can lead you to sin. It should not be preached form the pulpit that if you read or participate in these things then you must not be saved or that God will punish you.

Christians as a whole get to caught up in the 'thou shall nots' and not in the 'thou shalls'. If you are truely seeking the Lord and His will, things of this nature will not be a problem.

The second part of your question is whether these things are a reason to leave a church. Unfortunately it is church time here and I don't have time to give you my opinion. I'll be back later.

 

I don't think I would like to attend a church that preached about any of the above things.

</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry but if your pastor never touches on any of these things that plague our world today he is not offering you the full council of God. The Church is a hospital for sinners and a barracks for the saints, everything that we face is not nice and sweet. Murph

 

Murph, I agree 100%! My church calls sin sin and preaches against these things and more. I don't think it's my place to go and instruct my preacher on what topic he needs to cover. The Holy Spirit can do that just fine, but I'd run from a church that didn't address the issues affecting families and youth today, including those listed above! Add smoking, divorce, drugs, drinking, fornication, pornograhpy....

Our sermon today was from
Romans 13:11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Diane

 

I don't think I would like to attend a church that preached about any of the above things.

</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry but if your pastor never touches on any of these things that plague our world today he is not offering you the full council of God. The Church is a hospital for sinners and a barracks for the saints, everything that we face is not nice and sweet. Murph </font>[/QUOTE]"if your pastor never touches on any of these things "
is a far cry from:
"preached about any of the above things"

I can see including the evil of "body piercings"
as part of a list of evils. I cannot
see a sermon called: Twelve Obscene
Results of Promiscous Body Piercing.
In the one case the preacher is giving
Godly advise; in the second case he is
giving us ideas of perversions we never
thought of yet.

 

Thanks for all the responses. Thankful, you're right about focusing mainly on positive, empowering topics, pure Bible teaching, led by the Holy Spirit. Plus, it sometimes is vital to tell it like it is. I've never heard any preaching anywhere on: sports addiction and sports drug abuse, caring for the poor, caring for the disabled & elderly, drug addiction and drug culture, edifying music vs. demonic music, how to spot a cult, how to resist brainwashing, how to recognize and resist hypnotic coercion, violent video games, the sin of sorcery and witchcraft (except for John Hagee). NOT that we should dwell on these things, BUT if they are never preached against, lots of parishioners may be totally ignorant, gullible, and deceived by them. Thanks to all. Real good thought-out responses. But--at what point do you seek elsewhere for a church?

 

I have never preached a message on any of the things you mentioned directly- either as a pastor or previously as a youth pastor. I preach and teach expository or topical-expository, and last time I looked, "harry potter" didn't come up when I ran it through QuickVerse!

However, I have taken the opportunity to use similar matters as illustrations on developing discernment and such. Some of these things are such trivial phenomena that it can be almost counter-productive to mention them- by the time many pastors become aware of many of these issues, they have ceased to be relevant.

ILLUSTRATION: when I went to Christian school, we had someone in chapel who came and preached against the evils of "playing cards." Whatever your perspective on them, it was a total non-issue with my peers and I, and it became a subject for joking and scorn (not that that was right, mind you).

The Word of God tells us to "approve things that are excellent." My philosophy is to spend time helping people incorporate Biblical principles that allow them to do just that.

Regarding the CCM issue: I would say that is grounds for leaving if you are in disagreement with the direction of the church (either way). To remain is to either violate your conscience and convictions or potentially "sow discord among brethren." I would take the time to lovingly explain your reasoning and convictions before leaving, but leave I would.

 

Okay, back from church. Since I just know you all are waiting with bated breath on what I consider reasons to change churches I'll give it a whirl. Remember these are only the things I think it important to consider.

Is the church you are attending helping to bring you closer to the Lord or are they pushing you away? Do you have ample opportunity to work for the Lord or are you made to feel inadequate or unworthy? Is there a general feeling of Christian love among the members? Here I am not talking about the one or two members that you don't really get along with. Those people are there to teach you patience and tolerance. I mean if a stranger walked in the front door of the church would they be able to tell that THIS group of people genuinely care about each other despite their individual differences.

Is the preacher refusing to address sins that are ongoing within the church? When I was a teenager the church I attended split because of adultry within the church leaders that many felt hadn't been fully addressed. The problem here wasn't that the sin wasn't confessed to the members and repented of. It was. The problem was that after it happened and was over the preacher simply didn't address issues of sexual immorality at all. If this is the case you need to speak with your preacher. And pray seeking the guidance of the Lord.

Things such as body piercing, Harry Potter and liberal Democrats are subjects not directly addressed by the Bible. These are things that are subject to ones own interpetation of what the Bible says. For instance, is it wrong to body pierce? Well the Bible says your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. What do you want your temple to look like?

Things such as abortion, adultry and homosexuality are directly addressed in the Bible. The first two are dealt with in the ten commandments the third is against nature itself and an abomination. On these things and subjects like them, there should be no wavering from what the Bible says. No making excuses for this behavior.

Subjects in both the above paragraphs should be dealt with in a loving manner. Remember that Christ came not to condemn because we were already condemned. It is the same today. Most people know exactly what they are doing that is sinful. They need to be pointed lovingly back to the Way.

You also have to keep in mind the needs of your family. I don't believe that church should necessarily entertain but neither should it be boring and glum. In my own family a church that holds a childrens progam during the morning worship was very important when they were younger. My son is somewhat hyperactive. It is extremely hard for him to be still for five seconds let alone for an entire hour. Also my children are close together in age. The hour or two I got to myself at church each Sunday morning was wonderful. Also because my husband doesn't often attend services with me, I needed the help of the those who were in the nursery and childrens church.

You also need to understand that it is not a sin to change churches. It is a sin or could lead to sin, to not attend church at all. We need the fellowship of other Christians who share the same beliefs to help with our own spiritual growth.

 

Oh, yes a question of my own: What is CCM?

 

Sorry, it stands for Contemporary Christian Music. Most of which I really enjoy, especially when lyrics are solid Biblical. But to see CCM as the key to church growth, I don't get it. The key is witnessing, love, good preaching, healings, spiritual maturing, good fellowship.

 

Interesting. can you back this up for us with Scripture please?


Jim

 

Interesting. can you back this up for us with Scripture please?


Jim </font>[/QUOTE]Jesus sent his disciples out two by two.

Axts 2:42, "They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.

Jn 13"34,35, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

 

When the Holy Spirit leads you to leave and find another church. He will also lead you to a new church.

 

Greg Linscott, I totally agree and thank you for sharing through your experience.

 

I love the old hymns, I mean the really old hymns, the book of Psalms. The Reformed Presbyterian church of Ireland believes that music, however, is part of sacrificial system of OT and thus not appropriate for NT worship. So many different opinions in One Body of Christ. Well, church growth has been strategized for all time in the book of Acts. I back up the elements responsible for church growth with the entire book of Acts, seriously. It's all there. No mention of music style, tho I see no biblical reason for not having beautiful, reverent music from classical to jazz to folk to Southern Gospel to rock. From Twila Paris and Sara Groves to The Prayer Chain and The Benjamin Gate.(The only music I personally have a problem with is hardcore screaming growling rock)but...Praise God with loud clanging cymbals! (Psalm 150:5)

 

I knew that was a dumb question.

Okay, I believe music can be a useful tool for church growth, probably not the whole key.

What kind of music? Whatever kind fits your particular congregation. Here in the Bible belt where there is a church on every corner you are going to find different music styles in every one. Some of out local churches have full bands including drums and guitars. Some have the more traditional piano and organ. Some make use of prerecorded music, even music videos. Our primitive Baptist church still uses Fa So La music(ie no instruments).

The Bible say make a joyful noise. It doesn't specify exactly what kind of instruments/music style. I personally believe that God likes variation. So long as the music glorifies the Lord I don't have a problem with any of it.

I do have personal preferences. I like some CCM, most Southern Gospel and a good many of the old hymns. Mostly, I like a mix of all of it.