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Featured Legacy Standard Bible

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Deacon, Jul 4, 2023.

  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I've begun using the Legacy Standard Bible recently and am pleasantly surprised.

    I thought I'd post features that I encounter as I use the new version.

    Always read the Preface of the version(s) you use!

    A Preface may identify the translators philosophical position about translation translation and their methodology.

    "...the goal of this translation is to be a window into the original text. Within that goal, this revision has focused upon accuracy and consistency. It has checked that words and grammar have been carried over properly. It also established rules for the consistent translation of terms within their various nuances. This allows the reader to more easily reconstruct what the original texts said."

    "In this edition, a word might not be translated consistently in order to maintain a highly familiar rendering of a text or to preserve a word play in the text that advances the inspired author’s message. Moreover, because Scripture is a literary masterpiece, some linguistic features could not be transferred to this translation, not even by a note. Nevertheless, ensuring that the original languages are precisely rendered paves the way for careful readers to discover these insights for themselves."


    The Preface will identify the source of the text from which they are translating.

    Hebrew Text: The Legacy Standard Bible utilizes the latest edition of Rudolf Kittel’s Biblia Hebraica together with the most recent light from lexicography, cognate languages, and the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    Greek Text: The Legacy Standard Bible has the benefit of a number of critical Greek texts in determining the best variant reading to translate. The 27th edition of Eberhard Nestle’s Novum Testamentum Graece, supplemented by the 28th edition in the General Epistles, serve as the base text. On every variant reading the Society of Biblical Literature GNT as well as the Tyndale House GNT were also consulted. In the end, each decision was based upon the current available manuscript evidence.


    A Preface may identify features that make the translation different from others.
    This is pertinent since the NASB 2020 version was released shortly before the Legacy Standard Version. Both were revisions of the original NASB and its 1997 Update.

    I'll be posting on some of the various features in later posts but the first one IMO, is the feature that stands out most prominently.

    Names of God: ...
    Traditionally, the translation “God” renders the Hebrew word Elohim. Likewise, the word “Lord” is a translation of Adonai. In the LSB, God’s covenant name is rendered as Yahweh. ...

    In addition to Yahweh, the full name of God, the OT also includes references to God by a shorter version of His name, Yah. By itself, God’s name “Yah” may not be as familiar, but the appearance of it is recognizable in Hebrew names and words (e.g. Zechar-iah, meaning Yah remembers, and Hallelu-jah, meaning praise Yah!). God’s shortened name “Yah” is predominantly found in poetry and praise.

    The NT uses the term “Lord” (Kurios) to translate Yahweh. The LSB maintains the translation “Lord” and does not change those instances to Yahweh. In cases when “Lord” explicitly translates Yahweh in a quotation of the OT, a footnote is provided stating such. Nevertheless, the LSB maintains the translation of “Lord” in the NT for the same reason it upholds Yahweh in the OT: because that is what is written in the original text.

    I did not enjoy the Holman Christian Standard Version which used Yahweh, so I was quite reluctant to try the LSB.
    The LSB's Preface identifies the reasoning behind their decision.

    Preserving this in translation foundationally records what is present in the OT text. It also allows proper distinction between God’s personal name and the title “Lord” (Adonai), which emphasizes God’s authority. Even more, it helps the reader to engage God with the name which He gifted to His people. Thus, the reintroduction of God’s personal name into the translation of the OT is a feature that enhances the precision, intensity, and clarity of the biblical text in English.

    Psalm 68:1–4 (LSB)
    1 Let God arise, let His enemies be scattered,
    And let those who hate Him flee before Him.

    2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away;
    As wax melts before the fire,
    So let the wicked perish before God.

    3 But let the righteous be glad; let them exult before God;
    And let them rejoice with gladness.

    4 Sing to God, sing praises to His name;
    Lift up a song for Him who rides through the deserts,
    Whose name is Yah, and exult before Him.​


    Rob
     
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  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    (BHS)
    שִׁ֤ירוּ׀ לֵֽאלֹהִים֮ זַמְּר֪וּ שְׁ֫מֹ֥ו סֹ֡לּוּ לָרֹכֵ֣ב בָּ֭עֲרָבֹות בְּיָ֥הּ שְׁמֹ֗ו וְעִלְז֥וּ לְפָנָֽיו׃


    (Wycliffe)
    Synge ye to God, seie ȝe salm to his name; make ye weie to hym, that stieth on the goyng doun, the Lord is name to hym. Make ye fulli ioye in his siyt, enemyes schulen be disturblid fro the face of hym,

    (Coverdale [1535])
    Oh synge vnto God, synge prayses vnto his name: magnifie him yt rydeth aboue the heauēs whose name is ye LORDE & reioyse before hī.

    (Geneva Bible [1560])
    Sing unto God, & sing praises unto his Name: exalt him, that rideth upon the heavens, in his Name Jah, & rejoyce before him.

    (AV 1873)
    Sing unto God, sing praises to his name:
    Extol him that rideth upon the heavens
    By his name JAH, and rejoice before him.

    (ASV [1901])
    Sing unto God, sing praises to his name:
    Cast up a highway for him that rideth through the deserts;
    His name is Jehovah; and exult ye before him.

    (HCSB)
    Sing to God! Sing praises to His name.
    Exalt Him who rides on the clouds —
    His name is Yahweh —and rejoice before Him.

    (NASB [1971 and 95])
    Sing to God, sing praises to His name;
    Lift up a song for Him who rides through the deserts,
    Whose name is the LORD, and exult before Him.

    Pick the right one!

    Rob
     
    #2 Deacon, Jul 4, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2023
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  3. Conan

    Conan Well-Known Member

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    Corrections in Coverdale in [brackets]. The original transcriber did not know early modern English printing symbols. Mistakes are all across the internet as a result. In early modern English printers used the Y as the "thorn" symbol for the "th" sound with a little t over the top meaning "that". The same with "the" and not "ye". The original had the letter "thorn" represented by capitol Y with a small "e" on top for "the".

    Characters and Contractions Used in Early Printed Books
    ¯ The macron. A horizontal stroke printed over a letter to indicate that the following letter or syllable (usually an n or m) has been omitted. For example, the is put for them. A curled macron (tilde) represents an omitted a. By this means, scribes and early printers often abbreviated a word so that their columns would be neatly justified.
    [​IMG][​IMG] The "Y" character, which came to be used to represent the runic "thorn" (þ - see above) was often used as an abbreviation for "th" in early printed books, and when it was used in this way it was normally printed with a superscript "e" or "t" as an abbreviation for "the" or "that."
    [​IMG] Up till about 1790 the "long s" was used for s at the beginning and in the middle of words. In Roman type the long s looks like an f with the cross-stroke on the left only, and in italic type it looks like a stretched round s.
    u v The "U" and "V" are not distinguished phonetically in early English spelling. The "U" character is used for both the v and u sound when it occurs in the middle of a word, and the "V" character is normally used for either sound at the beginning of a word.
    & The ampersand, often used for "and" in early books.
    e The silent "e" occurs much more often in early English spelling than it does now. It was often used by printers simply to expand the length of a word in order to justify their columns of type

    Changes in the English Language
     
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  4. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    The Legacy Standard Bible is generally an update of the 1995 edition of the NASB...
    ...but not exactly.
    Word exchanges abound.​

    My general general impression is that the changes that were made in the LSB are conservative.
    And where textual questions exist, the version is quite cautious.

    A case in point is Psalm 145

    Psalm 145 is an acrostic psalm. In the BHS it is missing the verse for the Hebrew letter "nun".
    The verse is present in a few ancient manuscripts.

    Psalm 145:12–14 (LSB)
    Lamedh
    12 To make known to the sons of men His mighty deeds
    And the glory of the majesty of His kingdom.

    Mem
    13 Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
    And Your dominion endures from generation to every generation.

    Samekh
    14 Yahweh sustains all who fall
    And raises up all who are bowed down.
    Pluses - the LSB provides the letters in the acrostic psalm identifying it for the reader.
    Minuses - the LSB fails to note the existence of the missing verse, either in the passage or a note.


    Compare with ESV
    Psalm 145:12–14 (ESV)

    12 to make known to the children of man your mighty deeds,
    and the glorious splendor of your kingdom.

    13 Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
    and your dominion endures throughout all generations.

    [The Lord is faithful in all his words
    and kind in all his works.*] [*note - "These two lines are supplied by one Hebrew manuscript, Septuagint, Syriac (Compare Dead Sea Scroll)"]


    14 The Lord upholds all who are falling
    and raises up all who are bowed down.​


    Note also the use of "sons of men" in verse 12 of the LSB and "children of man" in the ESV.

    Rob
     
    #4 Deacon, Jul 21, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2023
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  5. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    I have a few friends who are actual Textual Scholars and they say that the LSB is a very faithful translation, and a good competitor for the ESV.
     
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    John 3:16 — LSB
    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”

    Outdated mistranslation:
    1) For God so loved the world suggests the idea is the quantity of God's love, rather than addressing the way He manifested His love.

    2) God's love is directed toward humanity, not inorganic gas, liquid and solids.

    3) Jesus is not God's only begotten son, as Adam is called the son of God and every born anew believer is called the son of God. Rather, Jesus is God's unique Son.

    4) The promise is not made to whoever believes in, on or toward Jesus, but everyone who believes "into" Him, referring to whoever God transfers into Christ's spiritual body based on crediting their faith as righteousness.​
     
  7. Mikoo

    Mikoo Active Member

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    You have already discerned 'poor or corrupt translation choices' by your own diligent bible study. Now we can add your ability to recognize 'outdated mistranslation(s)'.

    Still waiting for that commitment where you can share that knowledge by fixing all those 'poor and corrupt translation choices' and now 'outdated mistranslation(s)' by others and publish your own bible (The Van Bible?) version where you correct these incapable scholars from their 'poor and corrupt translation choices' and 'outdated mistranslation(s)' which would be a huge benefit to all of us.

    Just think, with the completely error-free Van Bible, we could eliminate all these debates over bible translation once and for all!

    You would not deprive the Christian world of that, would you?
     
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  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Outdated LSB mistranslation:
    John 3:16 — LSB
    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”

    Updated interpretive translation:
    God loved humanity is this way, He gave His unique Son, so everyone believing into Him would not perish, but have everlasting life.
     
  9. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    No, not really outdated,
    reading between the lines of its preface, the LSB is clearly a conservative and cautious evangelical translation.

    There are plenty of changes but nothing groundbreaking or exciting.

    Rob
     
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  10. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Would you also say it is a good competitor against the LEB?
     
  11. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Jesus is God's only begotten son. Adam was created not begotten, others are adopted sons.
     
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sir, I believe you are wrong on all three counts.

    1) Modern scholarship defines "monegenes" as "one of a kind" or unique. The fact some old translations mistranslated it as "begotten" is well known.

    2) Adam is a son of God, just as Jesus is a "Son of God." But Jesus is the "unique Son of God" being God incarnate.

    3) Born anew believers are NOT adopted, they are born into God's family becoming sons or children of God.
     
  13. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member
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    Modern scholarship? Ha Ha.
    Does that overrule the many scholars in Europe as well as the UK? I dont think so. And is not "Only begotten " the same as "One of a kind?
     
  14. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    I'd have to mull that over for a while.
    The LEB is a niche Bible, not one I usually compare with others.
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    And as long as the Lexham English Bible was mentioned I'll continue with it.

    I encountered an interesting variant today where the Legacy Standard Bible departed from its NASB heritage.

    We had communion today. In his opening remarks the worship leader quoted from Jude 5.
    The difference immediately drew my attention (I'm guessing he was quoting from the ESV).

    Jude 5 (ESV) (cf. LEB, LSB)
    Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.​

    I'm familiar with the more common variant tradition.

    Jude 5 (NASB 2020) (cf. NASB71, 1995, NIV, KJV, ,
    Now I want to remind you, though you know everything once and for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.​

    It's a rather complicated variant with many twists and turns that have even seasoned textual critics changing their position over time. See the following comment by James Snapp on his blog [link]

    Contracted as nomina sacra, the competing variants are ΚΣ (“Lord”) and Ὁ ΙΣ (“Jesus”), or, if the article is considered secondary,ΚΣ and ΙΣ. Setting aside a question about the arrangement of the phrases in this verse (a question which is extraordinarily complex), and focusing on the simpler question of which word at this point is original, it is initially difficult to resist the appeal of Ἰησοῠς [Jesus]. Not only is it supported by Alexandrinus, Vaticanus, 1739, 1881, the Vulgate and the Sahidic version, but, from a utilitarian perspective, it conveys an apologetically convenient point about the pre-existence of Jesus.

    Ἰησοῠς was the reading in the 1966 edition of the UBS GNT, and a note in Metzger’s Textual Commentary shows that he and Allen Wikgren pressed for its adoption. Years ago, I too favored the reading ΙΣ [Jesus] – but upon further consideration, ΚΣ [Lord] commends itself as original. I would argue that an early scribe felt that κύριος was too ambiguous (does it refer to the Father, or to the Son?) ...

    [... brackets and translation in red added ...]​

    The Legacy Standard Bible (surprisingly to me) follows the ESV by using the name Jesus.
    Comment: Although the following variant is not the traditional choice it is attuned to its evangelical audience.
    Many modern versions footnote the variant.

    Rob
     
    #14 Deacon, Aug 6, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2023
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The "Jesus" reading follows the Latin and about 1.4% of the Greek mss for Jude.
    The "Lord" reading being about 93%.
    The most common reading "the Lord" 87.8% with 79.4% being in the Majorty text.

    Ref: F35GNT 3rd edition.
     
    #15 37818, Aug 7, 2023
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2023
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  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Sorry Sir but there is no point is discussion. If you deny "only begotten" is a well known mistranslation, there is nothing I can say.
     
  17. Mikoo

    Mikoo Active Member

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    Sir, sorry but it really seems you have all the answers so I must repeat:
    You have already discerned 'poor or corrupt translation choices' by your own diligent bible study. Now we can add your ability to recognize 'outdated mistranslation(s)'.

    Still waiting for that commitment where you can share that knowledge by fixing all those 'poor and corrupt translation choices' and now 'outdated mistranslation(s)' by others and publish your own bible (The Van Bible?) version where you correct these incapable scholars from their 'poor and corrupt translation choices' and 'outdated mistranslation(s)' which would be a huge benefit to all of us.

    Snarky comment deleted by moderator.
     
    #17 Mikoo, Aug 8, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2023
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    John 3:16 — LSB
    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”

    Outdated mistranslation:
    1) For God so loved the world suggests the idea is the quantity of God's love, rather than addressing the way He manifested His love.

    2) God's love is directed toward humanity, not inorganic gas, liquid and solids.

    3) Jesus is not God's only begotten son, as Adam is called the son of God and every born anew believer is called the son of God. Rather, Jesus is God's unique Son.

    4) The promise is not made to whoever believes in, on or toward Jesus, but everyone who believes "into" Him, referring to God transferring the individual into Christ's spiritual body based on crediting the individuals faith as righteousness.​
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Here is an updated interpretive translation of John 3:16:
    God loved humanity in this way, He gave His unique Son so that everyone believing into Him would not perish but have everlasting life.
     
  20. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Van, the translations you have provided above do not coincide with the LSB translators guidelines.

    As as you keep trying to make this thread about John 3.16, I’ll give you an assignment:

    (1) Provide your own translation of Jn 3.16 using the principles illustrated in the preface of the Legacy Standard Bible.

    (2) While being restrained by their guidelines, provide the reasons why your translation would differ from that of the translators.​

    Rob
     
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