Featured Liberal Christianity vs. Seeker Friendly Christanity

You once advocated that were all spiritually dead in Adam, born in original Sin, that the lord himself had to intervene to save you, that Jesus died in order to atone for your sins...

that is all Biblical, were you advocating abrand of calvinism not aware of?

 

13 Which are born not of blood, nor of the [y]will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

seems pretty calvinistic to me!

 

Yeshah....

You posted...

Of course, you are posting things that are not problamatic, and that we all agree on.


But its the *rest of the story* that causes the whole thing to crash and burn.

Things like this...

http://allanturner.com/calbk_1.html

 

AIC,

...
You quote from your source who does not get it at all.[alan turner]

AIC....do you believe God is ever surprised? or..something can happen that He has not ordained to happen??? How does anything take place outside of what God has purposed to take place,AIC....explain this...

Then explain how your understanding of this section of scripture...AIC-
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

of course AIC...otherwise salvation is of works.

Turner makes the mistake of inserting this idea of free will here where the scriptures and the confession do not hold to it/ So he invents a strawman,and does not address the language that was carefully chosen by the men who summed up scriptural teaching....so he refutes nothing but his own imagination.

All men are already hellbound and condemned unless Jesus saves them.....

God is going to punish all sin...mens will has nothing to do with the fact sin will be punished in full. Mans works cannot help him.

"Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of His mere grace and love, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto; and all to the praise of His glorious grace."

The only error is alan turner does not understand the scripture here, or the WCF>

AIC...you were never a Calvinist.....never...lol.

 

Brother iconoclast..

You posted...

Thats all fine and good, but it has no relavance regarding the primary issue, that being..

This unthinkable nonsense of a just and loving God deciding to send millions and millions of people people to hell, even before they were even born...while declaring to us...

"It is not my will that ANYONE BE lost, but that ALL come to REPENTANCE....

And God has given every person who has ever walked this earth the opportunity.

 

I am not a Calvinist, if you are going to call someone ridiculous then you should at least know how to spell it.

 

I most certainly was.

But feel free to think other wise if it helps you to cope.

 

The bible does not say,what you say here AIC.....You did not explain what Isa 46 means....please do??? you cannot have it both ways....if you cannot begin to explain verses like that that clearly say what they do...you lose all credibility.....

It is God's will that many be lost...or Jesus would not have said multitudes will be cast into hell.mt7.21-23..:wavey:

God has not given every person the opportunity.....that is a falsehood as has been explained to you many times. Deal with reality AIC....

Calling something nonsense...then not dealing with the verses does not advance the discussion.

 

The Rev says he is not a Calvinist. Which of the 5 points of the tulip does he consider false doctrine? Answer? I expect none will be forthcoming.

The TUL and I of the Tulip are false doctrines. There is no actual support in scripture for any of them.

The "T" (total spiritual inability in our natural men of flesh unregenerate condition) is shown to be false by Matthew 23:13 where men of flesh were entering heaven. Thus they had some spiritual ability.

The "U" (unconditional individual election for salvation before creation) is shown false by 2 Thessalonians 2:13 where God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth.

The "L" (limited atonement - Christ died only for the elect) is shown false by 1 John 2:2 - Christ became the propitiation for the whole world.

The "I" (irresistible grace to enable a positive response to the milk of the gospel) is shown to be false by Matthew 23:13 where men entering heaven, and therefore under the compulsion of irresistible grace, are blocked from entering by false teachings.

The Calvinist response - why those verses do not say what you think they say. That is it, folks. Boggles the mind.

 

VAN wrote-

There is no such thing in scripture....yet you use it often.

With your ideas....there is no election at all.....it is not needed.

 

I deny limited atonement.

I deny irresistible grace.

I deny that God has created some people for the sole purpose of damning them.

I deny the Calvinist definition of the Sovereignty of God and Election.

And you can ask most any Calvinist on this board. They all know that.

That will be the last time I will respond to your arrogance. You are worse than Calvinists.

 

And what is worse and far more dangerous than Calvinism is Open theology and the idea that God learns. Heretical in its purist form.

 

Well, there you go folks, this is the fruit of Calvinism. Icon says it is God's will that multitudes be lost, and he puts a smiley face on it. Horrific.

Calvinism says the EXACT OPPOSITE of what scripture says, the Bible says that God is not willing that any should perish.

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

There is a lot of false teachings in the world, but I have never seen anything worse than Calvinism. Calvinism portrays God as an evil monster who delights in destroying men.

 

Houw daer yuo saye taht!

 

Winman

bearing false witness is sin. My waving to AIC does not equate to putting a smilely face on the judgement......

So you deny MT7:21-23....Jesus speaking to multitudes saying depart from me???? HINT: when Jesus says depart...it is at the white throneand they are being sent to hell justly for their sins...This is exactly God's will at that time.

,

No...your posts and explanations of scripture say the opposite about 90% of the time.You are a false teacher in that you say what you do...on purpose.You have been corrected many times but ignore all of it.

The bible does not say that anywhere at all....no matter how many times you and others twist 2pet3:9 out of context...it never says it.:thumbs:

The context is clear, the elect are still in view, in contrast to the scoffers.

Most of the false teaching here comes from you doing this to all manner of verses. Then you make accusations about the biblical God saying things about Monsters, robots, and parrots.

You know what is horrific....we tell Roman Catholics that the RC church does not use scripture correctly .Then you post this kind of horrific error so as to not have the word of God at all. Even an unsaved person who can read in context can see your twisting of verses is error.

God's will is done on earth as it is in heaven.At the white throne multitudes will be cast into the lake of fire.That is God's will.
Thankfully God in covenant has elected a multitude to be saved in His Son.

In heaven the elect do not think God's righteous judgement makes Him as you declare...."a monster"...

19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

This judgement is as much God's will as salvation of the elect Winman, so no need for you to keep wresting the scriptures out of context.

God's will is always done. It seems you as well as AIC, cannot respond to Isa 46;
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Winman....you complain that no one responds to your posts and the scriptures you "offer". The reason is you twist them all the time.:thumbs:

 

Pitchback

You appear to be an open theist. Does God predestine whatsoever comes to pass, or does He allow men to choose to trust in Him, or to reject Him. If you deny Irresistible Grace, you are an open theist, rather than a "Closed Theist" as are Calvinists.

 

Pitchback

Yet another Calvinist misrepresenting my views, making false assertions and simply muddying the waters.

The phrase "milk of the gospel" does not appear in scripture, but the concept does. 1 Corinthians 3:2 refers to some spiritual food as meat and more fundamental spiritual food as milk. The new Christians, babies in Christ, could not understand the meat so Paul taught them using the milk spiritual food.

Hebrews 6:1 teaches of "elementary principles" about Christ that are learned by immature Christians. And Hebrews 5:2 refers to those "elementary principles" and equates them with "milk."

Thus, even though "the milk or fundamentals of the gospel" does not appear as an exact phrase, the concept that men of flesh and babies in Christ can understand milk is in the bible (1 Corinthians 3:2), and "milk" in this context refers (Hebrews 6:1) to the elementary principles about Christ.

As far as election, referring to God individually choosing people for salvation through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, I believe in it, but the Calvinists deny it. So the charge that I do not is the exact opposite of the truth.

 

No, it equates to you implying that AIC is lost and going to hell, and so you wave goodbye to him. You imply your non-Cal opponents are lost in MOST of your posts, nothing new, no one is fooled. You delight in believing you are elect and others are lost, you are cold hearted and uncaring like the false god you worship.

I deny that it is God's WILL that any should perish.

2 Peter 3:9 is a very simple verse that even a child could understand. Calvinists of old understood it properly.

Earlier Calvinists did not twist and wrest the scriptures as you do.

And I just showed you Calvinists that affirm that is exactly what scripture says.

You imply that God is foolish and could not simply have said "the elect".

No, it is you and other hyper-Calvinists who twist and wrest scripture as you have done here.

Amazing, you are oblivious that you are brainwashed, that you have been conditioned to only see a Calvinistic perspective in scripture. But those earlier Calvinists I showed you rightly divided the word.

Then why did Jesus tell us to pray for God's will to be done on earth if it is already being done? Nonsensical.

Trust me, the elect in heaven do not agree with your doctrine.

It is true that God will judge the world in righteousness, but God takes no delight in the death of the wicked. It is God's will that all repent.

You should study some moderate Calvinists, they did not wrest the scriptures like the hard core hyper-Calvinists you listen to.

 

Pitchback

Actual ministers of God express the gospel they believe in, rather than point to the faults of others. You are long on charges, such as others are arrogant. but short on lovingkindness toward the least of His.

 

strange! wesley geisler and others hold to arminian theology regarding God, yet they do NOT hold to open theism for God!

the god of open theism NOT the calvinist nor the arminian God, as that God is NOT biblcal, as God is not all knowing, and has agreed to learn and grow with his creation!