Featured Liberal Christianity vs. Seeker Friendly Christanity

I am not assuming anything, but rather believing the truth that Jesus died a Covenant death for All that were given to Him before the world was.

Jn 6:37-44 is Rock solid..as is Hebrews 2:9-17:thumbs:

They were given To Jesus before the incarnation;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ,

 

Ok it is posts like this that make it difficult to speak to hyper Calvinists.

 

Winman...I said I read it....i saw even the others you did not post, like Charnock....

 

How so.....it is very easy....we can see what the verses say....do you see something different. because I do not agree with your view, I am HYPER???
these verses are very clear.


They were given To Jesus before the incarnation;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ,

 

John Calvin himself admits that 2 Peter 3:9 is speaking of 100% of mankind;

Calvin admits 2 Peter 3:9 stretches forth without a difference to all, but then says God "hidden" or "secret" will is to damn the non-elect.

How Calvin came to know this hidden or secret will of God would be an interesting discussion. Cannot God keep a secret?

Of course, anyone can claim he knows God's hidden or secret will, and no one can disprove it. :laugh:

 

Sometimes it might seem to be more difficult, if the person you are speaking with can answer you.Why not look at these three sections together:thumbs::wavey:

 

Winman, Notice that none of your quotes are addressing the actual language used....

Wishing (1014) (boulomai [word study]) expresses more strongly than thelo the deliberate exercise of one's will. (present tense)

While God is always willing to save man, man is not always willing to be saved. Don't be confused by this section -- God's "wishing" here does not express a decree (determining will), as if God has willed everyone to be saved. Universal salvation is not taught in the Bible. Instead those words describe God’s standing wish or desire which is that He longs that all would be saved (1Ti 2:4) but knows that many reject Him, again leaving open the possibility of human freedom of choice.

 

What do you mean, man is not always willing to be saved? In your system, no man is willing to be saved unless God regenerates him, makes him spiritually alive. You believe God makes a man alive so that he is able to believe so that he is able to receive life. Absolutely nonsensical, but that is what Calvinism teaches.

The fact is, all of these many Calvinists admit that 2 Peter 3:9 is speaking of 100% of men, not the elect only.

This hidden or secret will of God is laughable, how did YOU come to know this hidden or secret will?

I guess you really do believe yourself so smart that you can figure out God's hidden or secret will. :laugh:

 

They are first given....
The Father draws them by the Spirit
The are made willing in the day of God's power,at new birth.

All who are given by the Father come.....no more, no less.....ALL.

Hebrews 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;

this is the essence of the Covenant death and Particular Redemption.
This is a wonderful truth and blessing. We can preach with confidence to all men,knowing that God has ordained that means to reach His sheep...

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

 

Winman,

God has already revealed THE SECRET.....
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

See.....it is clear.....ALL spoken of here Get saved, because the Godhead has planned to save ALL of them...he is not willing that any of them perish.:wavey:

see the above post to RM.

 

If God has revealed it, then it is not a secret.

God gives those whom he knows in his foreknowledge will believe on Jesus. These are his sheep. This is why he says my sheep hear my voice, and I know them. The sheep hearing Jesus's voice preceded them being foreknown by God.

But where does God say he secretly desires many men to perish?

 

No....Foreknowledge is ......Of THE PERSONS,as sinners...he does not save them because he "SEES " they will believe....that is false and confuses people, All of mankind are sinners.God chose a multitude of sinners, to save...TO ACTUALLY save. He died for them while they were YET SINNERS.

No one would believe unless the Father who sent Jesus ...draws them..
No man can come...UNLESS

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

These are the sheep, who are taught of the Father...they are the Coven.ant children.

Isa 54 speaks of the covenant gentiles being grafted in, having been taught of the Father.
9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the Lord that hath mercy on thee.

11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.

12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.

13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

read from verse 1 if you really want to see it...paul quotes it in gal4

 

must sleep now, must be up before sunrise...later

 

Lol

 

Apparently you do not know what an open theist is.

 

Yet another attack devoid of content. My position is not closed theism, because the future is not exhaustive predestined. If anyone is not a closed theist, with the future settled, then they are to some degree open theists. Thus all Arminians and other non-Calvinists are open theists to a limited degree.

 

Van

Twaddle:laugh:Fiddlesticks:laugh:.....You were caught at the scene of the crime

You tried as shown:laugh:

When you were caught, you confessed,I give you credit for that:thumbsup:

 

Would someone please clearly enunciate and define what a "seeker friendly" church is? Personally, I "like" when people are searching and seeking with earnest desire to know their creator.

 

Some folks need to stop acting like a victim just because they do not like the response. And no no one is an open theist. Absurd and childish.

 

Yet another person attack without merit, Revmichell, and then a denial of the fact the future is not fixed, and we are responsible for choosing either the life or death options set before us by God. That choice has not been predestined, as the closed theists of Calvinism teach. Therefore all Arminians and many non-Calvinists are open theists to a limited degree.