1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Limited Free Will

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Apr 27, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,371
    Likes Received:
    654
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So rather then taking the Scriptures at face value, you conform them to your preconception.

    How is that righteous when you claim others, who in your view do such, are “deflecting” or “obfuscation” or some other statement in which you claim your view is superior and the one ”everyone knows (as) presenting the truth”?
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    13,056
    Likes Received:
    184
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another off topic against the man post. Twaddle
     
  3. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,371
    Likes Received:
    654
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Agreed they are the redeemed.





    “...God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation ...”

    Here the beginning is neither the church nor the start of the individuals, life but the time “God loved the World.”


    Agreed. In that you actually made it to the individual “person apart.”

    So, how is this different than what the doctrines of Grace teach?

    I don’t see your review as disproving as you claim.

    Perhaps you could lay out what exactly in the words disproves a doctrine of grace.
     
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    13,056
    Likes Received:
    184
    Faith:
    Baptist
    1) Not at issue.

    2) From the beginning refers to from the beginning of what:
    a) most likely, when the gospel was brought to Thessalonica.
    b) Next would be the beginning of the New Covenant in His blood.
    Since no one was transferred into Christ until after He died on the cross, earlier meanings are precluded.

    3) Once again, the verse says we were individually chosen for salvation through faith in the truth,. a conditional election, not an unconditional election which is one of the doctrines you assert.
     
  5. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,371
    Likes Received:
    654
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Scriptures teach that purchase was made by the blood (Acts 20). And as we agree the blood was shed for all, The Who of humankind.

    The Scriptures state that often the Christ was called “master” and that every knee will bow.

    Peter could rightly use “denying the master who bought them” with it not attaining to what you desire.

    There was no salvation in the blood, but both the death and resurrection. Even then does not Paul state that if Christ wasn’t raised faith is vain.

    Blood for all.

    Death and resurrection benefit believers only.

    So, knowing this how does this verse refute the doctrines of grace.
     
  6. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,371
    Likes Received:
    654
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Unconditional election applies to individuals who are chosen based upon nothing of value, but according to the unmerited favor and His purpose.

    This is also what you state in, “we were individually chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.”

    Where there seems to be disagreement is in the time the choice is made. You would place the choice at a different time, but the timing placement does nor refute the basic fact that “individuals (are/where) chosen for salvation.”

    I don’t see the cause for the claim of refutation you make.

    Perhaps you will point more concisely in what part this verse refutes a doctrine of grace point of election of which is undeserved, unmerited (through faith and truth as you claim) and the unconditional election that acknowledges Belief comes not by merit and is not deserved.
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    13,056
    Likes Received:
    184
    Faith:
    Baptist
    More nonsense, more obfuscation.
    The choice is made on the basis of our faith in Christ as credited by God as righteousness.

    I have posted more times than I can count we were chosen corporately before creation and individually during our life, after we had lived not as a [chosen] people.

    That we are individually chosen for salvation is not in dispute. The basis of our election is in dispute and the timing of our individual election is in dispute.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    13,056
    Likes Received:
    184
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rather than discussion the topic of the thread, you drag in one falsehood after another to obfuscate.

    Christ became the means of salvation when He died. The resurrection proves God accepted His sacrifice. If Christ did not rise from the dead, our faith is in vain. However, recall the thief who would be in paradise the day He died. This is three days before His resurrection.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    13,056
    Likes Received:
    184
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Limited Free will springs from our limited spiritual ability, our soul liberty to choose to believe in Christ. We can understand the milk of the gospel and be "persuaded" to believe wholeheartedly in Christ, or we can reject Him or only partially accept Him.
     
  10. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    12,944
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Six Hour Warning
    This thread will be closed sometime after 1:30 AM Pacific.
     
  11. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    729
    Likes Received:
    231
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Can you describe the results of "partial acceptance" of Jesus Christ as Savior?

    Please provide scriptural reference also.

    This is new doctrine to me.
     
  12. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,371
    Likes Received:
    654
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ok, I tried again to build bridges based upon certain agreement of Scripture.

    What does the portrayal display when one attempts to build bridges of agreement on Scripture in which quotes from your own posts are used and agreement is shown still is told, “...you drag in one falsehood after another to obfuscate.“

    I am sorry you get obfuscated so easily!

    Let me ask if these are not factual by Scripture authority:
    • The blood was shed for all sin of all time for all creation?
    • The death and resurrection of Christ benefits only believers.
    • Salvation is by the unmerited favor of God to individuals.
    • Faith comes as a gift by the work of the Holy Spirit using the Word of God.
    • God is love and therefore has prepared a place of keeping for both the condemned and redeemed.
    • Unredeemed humankind have free will that extends to knowing how to give good gives, but has no ability as any other fallen estate to be considered worthy of God’s favor.
    • Only the redeemed and yet alive are truly freed to exercise choice of this word and make bold appeal before the creator.
    • The redeemed are a complete new creation including all aspects pertaining to being “like Him” and yet the old will seeks to “war” against the new will of belief.

    There are more that could be stated, but it is enough that these facts are found in Scripture, are not “falsehood” and are not “obfuscation” of the threads many posts.
     
  13. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    12,944
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This thread is closed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...