Lordship’s “Turn From Sin” FOR Salvation

Also,

Notice the TYPICAL definition of "faith" as understood in the Jewish mind, demonstrated by James in verse....

Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"--and he was called a friend of God.


WHAT?! He just said Abraham "did" something. Here it is just saying he "believed God". This is the confusion brought in by modern evangelicals. In Judaism belief was determined by your actions. If someone said "Jump, I'll catch you", and you DID NOT jump, you didn't believe them, regardless of what you said or how you felt. This culture is the culture Jesus, Paul, James, Peter, etc. was raised in, and is how we must interpret the word "believe".

 

See, now I would see YOU choosing to feed the man and take him to the hospital. And I KNOW you are not saying that you are God.

By the same token, it would be YOU who needed to "confess with the mouth" what you believe in your heart in order to be saved. Your explanations either 1) put you in the place of God or 2) shroud the truth in false humility and mysticism.

The fact is that Christ must do His work "through" us. We, according to Him, will do works "greater than" His! But our choices are critical elements to His hope for us and for the world. Indeed, our presence, not His, restrains antichrist from revealing himself.

Which only confirms that there is a "work of faith" required for salvation -- else you are "dead," right? Calvinism is merely confusing "works" with "works of the law" instead of what those works really must be, "works of faith."

I really appreciate your deliberations on this issue, though. Do you see the 'disconnect' Calvinism puts between faith that works and faith that is in vain? Even in salvation, there is a "work" that keeps us from being "dead."

skypair

 

You can "see" whatever you wish, but this is clearly what Paul describes in multiple places. When we as Christians do good things, it is God doing them through us. When we do things we shouldn't, it is the "old man" doing them, not us. This is the way Paul speaks. How you choose to "see" it, makes no consequence.

Nope. Faith is a gift of God. Scripture says point blank that you are absolutely wrong...

1Co 12:3 Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says "Jesus is accursed!" and no one can say "Jesus is Lord" except in the Holy Spirit.

Or 3, simply make me a biblically defined believer. God does work through us. When we do good works (feeding the Homeless) it is God doing work through us. I cannot even understand how someone who has actually read the bible can argue with this.

Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Actually the "greater" in this verse means greater in number, or length of time. This is BECAUSE He is "going to the father". We will not do "better" works than Him just do them for longer. His ministry lasted only three years.

But even SAYING that, Paul makes it clear that these works are actually done by the Spirit, THROUGH us...

On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me.

This is obviously not a "working of faith", but rather, literal works done by God through Paul

THIS is putting us in the place of God. Without God, Satan (and therefore antichrist) would squash us like bugs. Only the presence of Christ in the world restrains Him...

Nope. True faith brings works. If I believe medicine will save me, I will take it. That does not mean my action and my faith are the same thing. There is no "work of faith" required for salvation. Faith is a gift. If it is a work, we are all damned, for scripture is clear salvation is NOT by works.

"Works" means actions or deeds. It is ANYTHING we do.

No, I see no disconnect. You have been deceived by 20th century thinking, that makes you think you can "believe" something, and not act in accordance with your beliefs. Scripture affirms ones true beliefs are in accordance with their actions, regardless what they may profess. This, then plainly makes "belief" and "actions" two different things, although linked. Calvinism is the only doctrine that makes since of these verses.

 

Yes, and even the unsaved to good things because God works through them. The parent loves and nourishes his/her child from God. ALL good things come from God through the flesh. That is no proof that it is God that directly does it.

Faith IS a gift of God -- no doubt about it, 1Cor 12:9. Faith is God's answer to our response to Him. I have been trying to impress this on Calvies since before you were here. raying: If you do not have faith, you only have "belief" -- unproven opinion.

I agree.

As noted in my previous answer, God does work through UNBELIEVERS as well. Don't unbelievers where you live contribute to the food kitchens? Pay taxes (I wish that were so here!)?

So true!

I think you err here. The "greater works" we do is to lead people to salvation so that they may receive the indwelling Spirit! Jesus had to leave earth so that this spiritual "work" could be done. In fact, this it the real reason why there was none greater born of women than John the Baptist but "the least in the kingdom of heaven shall be greater than he!" Mt 11:10.

I certainly wish you would get off your Greek explanations and just read the text. :BangHead:

Yes, we all ought acknowledge what we have received spiritually as the motivation for what we do in our flesh (when it is good, that is). But, yes, we are doing what we do by faith.

I guess we can agree to disagree on 2Thes 2:6-7. But have you actually seen Christ in the world lately? You're not one of those who says "He is here or He is there" are you?

What I was trying to point out and you apparently missed is that the "works" Paul talked about as "not of works" were works of the law. Do you really think that there is nothing we can do to be saved?

Oh? So if I believe the stock market is going up tomorrow but I invest nothing in my belief and it goes up, have I not believed "in vain?"

Yeah! I've tried to tell Calvies this for so long and finally someone understands! :thumbs: If I believe the gospel in my heart, I will confess Him with my tongue (in my case, that 'sinner's prayer') and God will give me the proof/faith of my convictions -- the Holy Spirit!!! PTL!


skypair
skypair

 

I still don't understand what you mean by gospel salvation versus eternal salvation. I've never heard about two salvations and don't find it in the Bible.