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Lordship Salvation vs Free Grace

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Salty, Jan 30, 2011.

  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I think we are talking past each other. There are works that result FROM salvation which include repentance of sins. Repentance leading TO salvation is never a work else you believe in a works based salvation ala the Roman Catholics.

    The above in the red states faith was evident ALONG WITH works...not that it was part of this group.
     
  2. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I believe Scripture doesn't teach that. If there is any work committed pre salvation that results in salvation, grace is frustrated. That is why Lordship Salvation is false.
     
  3. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Then everyone is saved just because we do not have to do anything.
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Grace is not opposed to effort, grace is opposed to earning. We never work to receive a gift.
     
  5. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    agreed and faith and repentance are still works we must do, but works do not save.
     
  6. WestminsterMan

    WestminsterMan New Member

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    Well, I concur in that we must be called by God before our initial repentance can occur. However, we have the freedom to accept that calling or to reject it; either choice is a work - one good and one evil. Remember the thought of lust – it is a sin upon which we will be judged and as such, it is a work according to Romans 2:5-11.

    I would argue that this position is not one of a works based salvation at all because it is only by the atoning sacrifice of Christ that salvation is even possible in the first place. Yet, we are judged to heaven or to hell based upon our deeds/thoughts/actions (or the lack thereof).

    Peace!
    WM
     
  7. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    I've honestly never met a person with the attitude "I want Jesus as Savior but not as my Lord." Never.

    Now, I have met a lot of folks in a Romans 7 position: they want to obey Jesus, but have not matured/been sanctified enough to be there yet.

    And honestly, never met a perfect person, so I guess the LS position means none holding to it are saved?

    Rather than either or, I have come to a both/and position.

    Free grace brings a sinner into justification, and there is no justification without regeneration. With regeneration will come increasing ability to obey.

    Of course, we prefer to judge whether a person has matured ENOUGH yet.

    And in so doing, prove we have not.
     
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    :thumbs: Nice post.
     
  9. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Lordship has never meant that one must obey perfectly even that which he knows.

    It simply means that one must confess having been fully convinced of the fact that Jesus Christ is Lord.

    The Bible is clear on this.

    There is no salvation for one who "accepts" Christ. That concept is new (within the past 100 years or so) and is utterly foreign to the Scriptures.

    Salvation comes by believing that Jesus Christ is LORD.
     
    #49 Luke2427, Feb 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2011
  10. Greektim

    Greektim Well-Known Member

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    That is unless Paul was referring to his past unconverted state in Romans 7.
     
  11. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Accepting Christ and renouncing sin

    Conversion is expected to be more than a simple change in religious identity, but a change in nature (regeneration), evidenced by a change in values. The Latin word conversio, translating the Greek metanoia, literally means "going the other way" or "changing one's mind". According to Christianity a convert is one who renounces sin as worthless and treasures instead the supreme worth of Jesus Christ; the convert sees the worth of Christ in Jesus' sacrificial death and resurrection and renounces sin.[8]

    The Christian convert is expected to believe that his separation from God cannot be overcome by good deeds done out of a desire to achieve individual moral self-satisfaction; rather, he seeks the forgiveness of his sins in the blood of Christ and wishes to be clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Because conversion is a change in values that embraces God and rejects sin, it includes a personal commitment to a life of holiness as described by Paul of Tarsus and exemplified by Jesus. In some Protestant traditions, this is called "accepting Christ as one's Savior and following him as Lord."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_conversion
     
  12. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    I haven't heard that either. But I have, in several instances, heard one give a testimony as "I accepted Jesus as Savior back then, but it was much later that I accepted him as Lord."

    Rightly or wrongly, in their own minds they separated the two events. Maybe they had a mistaken understanding about it, but they seemed to know their own hearts.

    Or maybe whoever shared the gospel with them emphasized the trusting Christ as Savior, and de-emphasized (or never mentioned) confessing him as Lord.

    I've heard a lot of invitations in my life, and most of them hit hard on the trusting, but barely mention the confessing.
     
    #52 Tom Butler, Feb 2, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2011
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    It could also be how he perceived his growth from a spiritual babe to a mature christian. Babies don't know much about the cost of discipleship, this is learned behavior from being in a Bible based church, prayer and spending time in the Word.
     
  14. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Yes, I agree. Good point. If that is the case, it says something about our need to be clearer at the outset that conversion involves confessing Christ as both Savior and Lord.
     
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