Lordship Salvation?

Agreed. I just shared it because that position does not say that eternal faith is required, perse, but that genuine faith will persevere. I'd like to know the scriptural basis for that.

Thx,

FA

 

FWIW, I don't.
I believe that one can rebel, can throw tantrums, shout to the high heavens he's calling it quits, no more, no more church, no more Jesus, no more salvation, no more praying, no more faith, no more choir practice, no more devotions, no more 'believe', no more Bible, pastor, don't visit with me anymore, my door is closed to all church members, no more, no more, no more. I quit !!!

I believe from that point on he can go to the pig sty and wallow in the filth along with the swine.

But when push comes to shove, really, really comes to shove, it's back to the arms of God he goes.

I know. VOE.

I think of this when I see a dog being walked by its master on a stretchable leash. The leash will only go so far, and the master pulls back.

 

Let me share a testimony...

About 5 or 6 years ago my brother-in-law's dad got saved and (I'll call him Mark - not his actual name) Mark began to show an interest in spiritual issues. One day about 5 years ago, after talking to my sister, I shared the gospel with him - drew it out. After a short discussion, I remember asking him if he'd like to see an illustration about what it meant to be a Christian. he said, "love to!"

So I laid out the gospel message, looking up a few appropriate verses, and then I suggested a "prayer," then asked him if that expressed a desire on his own heart. Tears ran down his cheeks as he said "yes." So we prayed together. I made it clear to him that the actual words of the prayer were not what saved, but that his faith in Christ, trusting in His death in his palce, was what God saw. There was no doubt about his sincerity, and his joy afterwards was so exciting.

His life changed significantly after this. he began going to church every week, and spent time in the Bible regularly. But after about two years he became frustrated about something involving the church. I tried to work through it with him, and eventually suggested that he attend a different church, suggesting some in their local. Eventually though, he stopped attending. he was still very positive about the Lord, but felt that he didn't need to go to church. After a year and a half or so, he became more and more bitter, and some serious lifestyle issues became apparent. He no longer goes to church, and has no interest in God. My sister last told me that he told her that he no longer believes in God.

But I realize that he may return to the Lord. However, what if he never does? One thing I am confident about: he genuinely trusted in Christ about 5 years ago.

Now I realize that we should not use testimonies to determine theology, but some testimonies have already been shared and hypothetical ones suggested. This one is real. I have absolutely no doubt that I will see him in the kingdom.

FA

 

Interesting indeed.

FA

 

Well put webdog. Once we recognize that a person who has trusted in Christ (we're not talking about saying certain words, but genuine faith) is changed, then what we are really facing is not possible ending of believing, but possible loss of salvation. I am convinced the latter is not possible. At least from a human perspective, the former is possible IMO.

Thx again,

FA

 

Another belief system overshadowed her true belief...you know, like the heretical false doctrine you now believe in regards to ME overshadowing the truth?

 

Thanks, but I don't take it personal with jjump. I've come to expect that.

 

Thank you for the testimony. This happens more than Christians want to admit. Even true beleivers who we think are good, fruit bearing Christians that show up each time the church doors are open put on an act to cover up sin in their lives. I have no doubt my sister and your friend will both be with Christ.
One other thing I never understood about the ME garbage...according to them, my sister is eternally saved...with the Lord now...but will then be sent to hell when the MK begins? Makes no sense whatsoever...

 

My personal VOE, as well, but I also have an experience similar to the one Faith Alone shared. A friend of mine was saved when he was much younger. Lived for the Lord well into his teens. However, he was surrounded with the screaming and yelling and "You're going to hell if you read anything but the KJV!" crowd, and saw that what they taught was contrary to reality, so if the Bible was full of lies, then God couldn't be real.

In talking to him, I am convinced that he knew in whom he believed, and that he, without a doubt believed on the Lord Jesus as his savior. (He means it, and I'm convinced that he's serious.)

He no longer believes in God.

However, since I have been able to lay out the Scriptures to him and show that there is no contradiction between science fact and the Bible (and he knows there is a lot in so-called science that is speculation that has to be accepted on faith), and that there are no contradictions between OSAS and other because the Kingdom message is distinct from the message of spiritual salvation, he has started listening again.

Hopefully this trend will continue.

But, if he had been killed a year ago, he would have died being a complete unbeliever, but still saved.

 

Just as so many have belief systems that overshadow the truth, such as the heretical doctrine that there are no warnings given to saved people?

Your's is more heretical than mine!

There! I've won the argument using your rules!

Now, back to the discussion at hand in which we will continue posting Scripture and you will continue saying, "No it isn't!"

 

ME?

I never heard of such theology! Whoa. It is amazing what extremes we sometimes go to IOT hang onto certain favorite doctrines.

FA

 

OK, I'm a calm person, but this really burns me up!

Why do you find it necessary to lie?

If your position is just and right why do you have to lie to "prove" your point?

I challenge you to show where anyone on this thread has said your sister is going to hell, or apologize for lieing.

 

Great then inform us as to where chitwood craig or faust has taught you that unfaithful saved will go during the millenium.

 

I didn't lie about anything. Where do disobedient believers go during the MK, HOG?

 

No I don't know seeings that the gospel of the kingdom is as True as Christ is True!

 

Come to expect what? Please show me where I insulted you or your sister. I said NOTHING of either of you. More baseless accusations on your part. Now that's not surprising!

All I said was that someone gave personal testimony of what I was talking about and that still wasn't enough to convince Amy. The only person that even has a right to be offended would be Amy and I didn't even say anything to her accept that she wasn't convinced that's hardly something to get offended over. I didn't even make mention of you or your sister.

 

Webdog:

(playing the Jeopardy song)

 

At the Judgment Seat of Christ, all saved people, and only saved people, will receive for what they've done in the flesh: Some will receive reward, some will suffer loss, and some will receive chastisement. These wages that we've earned are based on our works; they don't judge whether we are saved or not.

Jesus Christ is the judge! He will judge in the future! Only he knows what will happen to your sister! Not I, not you, not even your sister!

The Bible is very negative by modern standards. It spends much more time warning about adultery, covetousness, lieing, etc. than it does on the positive.

In fact, it says that many are called, but few are called out!

Out of the saved people who will be at the Judgment Seat, I don't know how many will have nothing; I don't know how many will receive punishment; But, I do know that few will be elect!

I have said nothing of your sister! Not a single peep!

You have to resort to lies and you call your position just?!?

If you're not lieing, please show a quote where anyone on this thread, other than you yourself, has said a single word about your sister receiving anything!

 

Webdog didn't ask where his sister went. He asked:

 

Amy, Webdog's exact quote is:

He states that according to us, she will be sent to hell.

This is an out-and-out lie! I'm calling on him to show us where we have ever said such a thing.

We, as saved individuals are given warnings with consequences, but we are also given the opportunity to judge ourselves while here in the flesh. It will be up to Jesus the Christ to judge at the Judgment Seat. No one else!