Louisiana Baptist University

http://www.lbu.edu has been discussed here a number of times, including recently on the On Line Seminaries thread. I am not 100% decided that I will enroll but am getting pretty close. I am aware of some of the problems with the school in terms of too many in grown faculty, etc (they are increasing the number of faculty with accredited degrees). My friend Mr. P expressed his opinions about the school in the above thread.

I already have an accredited doctorate and wanted to study for another one. I debated Trinity Theological Seminary as they are relatively affordable and candidates for Regional accreditation. However, they also have a great deal of baggage in terms of the over representation of the University of Liverpool endorsement, the Masters Divinity School connection (not to be confused with Masters Seminary), and a general feeling of University of Pheonix type sales..sales.

In my opinion LBU has the following in its favor even though unaccredited. They have denominational endorsment by the 4000 church BBFI, their degrees are accepted for the military chaplaincy (this means getting three letters from accredited seminaries stating equivalency and acceptability - according to a chaplain recruiter I spoke to this is not easy), they have an on campus program, their student body is not outlandish (1000 students), increasing acceptance of their graduates into graduate programs such as Liberty U & Regents U (law school, etc), some faculty at accredited institutions have LBU degrees (I realize this is not necessarily indicative of needing the PhD for the job as the Masters may have gotten it), attracting high profile commencement speakers (Paige Patterson, Jerry Falwell), Attorney General Ashcroft went to the campus to speak and receive an honorary doctorate, high profile alumni who are leaders in their fields, formal outside evaluations from State University Provosts attesting to the quality of the LBU education, etc.

Anecdotally, I have communicated with LBU graduates who have graduate degrees from accredited institutions who have attested to the rigor and integrity of the program. In two of those cases, people who took courses had been enrolled in/completed other accredited doctoral programs.

When short comings have been identified, LBU appears ready to improve the program. Dr. Weaver seems to have done a tremendous job of improving the profile of LBU. They are missions oriented. What ever shortcomings they had starting out (in the past)they are overcoming by trying to operate above board, and present a quality campus/distance learning program that just happens to be unaccredited. They are transparent about accreditation issues, licensure issues etc. As a couple of people have commented on another education board, they communicate integrity.

If and when I decide to enrol I will let you all know and keep you up with my impressions/progress.

Nord

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. Seems to be fairly common. I am looking forward to the possibility of studying with LBU and becoming part of that epxerience.

Nord

 

My hesitation at the moment is related to the accreditation issue. I have no first hand knowledge of the rigor other than what is reported by graduates and in one case one with an accredited doctorate whose opinion I trust. You are right the ingrown faculty issue needs checking (this was also a problem for Luther Rice for quite a while). The many other things I note above including the military acceptance issue are also supportive of some level of quality and rigor.

Accreditation is not the end all and be all based on what I intend to do with it and certainly there are accredited universitites that are held in less high regard than LBU (eg University of Pheonix).

So without experience, I can say I would likely get a good education, based on the factors I mentioned, and the increasing status and acceptance of LBU. In light of that probably some utility for the degree as well. Accreditation though is always something to consider. I would be leary of a Pensacola Christian College/Seminary EdD or a Bob Jones University (an extremely well respected school) doctorate for the same reason.

***Note BJU is a candidate for accreditation and will likely achieve it.

Nord

 

Well...I finally did it and enrolled in LBU's doctoral program. As I say above, I did so after talking to alumni with accredited doctorate/graduate degrees (whose opinions I respect and who spoke highly of the rigor), and in view of their BBFI endorsement/monitoring, acceptance by the military, quality of the fruit borne by their alumni, the level of commencement speakers they attract, and sense of integrity communicated by them. The administration has been to a person above board in discussing the program and limitations (due to accreditation). My impression is that they are trying to maintain a quality unaccredited program.

I will let you know more as I begin coursework.

Nord

 

Don't worry, I do not take it as a slam. I will try and answer your questons as best I can and also point out some other issues.

(1 & 2) I am doing a PhD in Counseling not a ThD. Therefore I do not need
to have Hebrew & Greek. Certainly, I could point out a number of accredited PhD programs at Christian Unviersities that are in counseling (Education) and do not require Hebrew & Greek never mind secular universities.

(3 & 4) GRE or Millers analogy need for admission? No, it is not required. Again, where to start with the number of Regionally Accredited Masters and doctorates that do not require the GRE or Millers analogy (especially Regionally accredited programs with Distance Learning components). I even know of a top tier Regional University that does not require it for its Masters programs. Here is a partial list of PhD programs I can think of and ALL Regionally Accredited:

Nova - Doctorates through campus program and distance learning with short residency. No GRE or Millers required as I recall.

Tour University International (branch of Touro campus) - 100% distance learning PhD, EdD, etc. No GRE or Millers required.

Oral Roberts University - EdD in several areas (good 2nd Tier school). Combined distance/campus program. No GRE or Millers required for admission.

Walden U - Distance learning PhD's (with short residency). Fields range from Psychology to Management. No GRE or Millers reuqired.

Capella U - Distance learning PhD's (with short residency). Fields range from Psychology to Management. No GRE or Millers required.

Northcentral Unviversity - 100% distance learning PhD, EdD's, no GRE or Millers required.

University of Sarasota - distance learning EdD/DBA's, with short campus time. No DRE or Millers required.

Union Institute and Unviersity - distance learning PhD's. Not sure but I do not believe they require GRE or Millers either.

This is a list of Regionally accredited universities with distance learning prgrams varying from a couple of week residency to none required (just off the top of my head).

5. No but see above and hundreds of other non distance learning degrees/programs (Regionally Accredited).

(8 & 9). No but see answer to question above and hundreds of other programs. Actually, 50 years ago all PhD prgrams practically required knowledge of a foreign language. This has gone by the wayside for the most part. Some countries such as Canada still have it for English PhD Majors, etc.

MDIv. Not necesary for the PhD in Counseling or Education at this or countless other religous or secular schools. In fact, at Southern Christian University (Regionally Accredited) you can do one of their DMin prgrams without and MDiv. LBU does require the appropriate background for admission. For example, I have an accredited Masters in Counseling. Same requirement in the Education dept.

Lastly, I do not pretend to know much about their Theology programs. However since you asked, LBU's ThD program requires biblical languages and a 90 credit hour MDiv for admission. As part of the program you also must take 18 hours of Advanced Systematic theology as part of your doctoral level work.

Hope that helps.

Nord

 

PatsFan, Thanks for your kind thoughts. That is my sense that the ability to tailor studies like Union Institute is possible. After finishing my doctorate I found myself bored and realized that I missed formal study. Good luck to you. I am sure you will do well and you will have graduated from a very good program.

Rhetorician, Thanks for the information (I like Al Mohler). Sounds interesting but I am already committed to LBU. I am excited and feel God led me to this program (it is a strong feeling backed up by my research into the school). I do not use the "leading of God expression" lightly as I am not one of those folks who goes around saying God led them to which soda to choose, etc. It was a strong sense that LBU was the right choice. Incidentally, you have a rather rare concentration (Rhetoric). You are probably in demand academically (I have never met anyone else with that major other than a guy from Berkley who enlisted in the army and I met at a military conference).

I will update as I progress through the program.

PS. This may not be the place for prayer requests but I would like to ask you to keep us in prayer. My son is having some emotional difficulties that are causing him distress and straining our family. Some of it is probably a bad case of teenage angst. Some of it related to ADHD. We are seeking out resources and of course prayer is one of the best

Thanks

Nord