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MA -> Doctorate

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Pastor Shaun, May 9, 2008.

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  1. Pastor Shaun

    Pastor Shaun New Member

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    What would be some options for the pastor going from an MA to doctorate? I like BJU's D. Pastoral Th. Anyone have suggestions?
     
    #1 Pastor Shaun, May 9, 2008
  2. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    Piedmont Baptist College and Graduate School has an MA to Ph.D program that seems to have a strong faculty. Check them out at www.pbc.edu
     
    #2 swaimj, May 9, 2008
  3. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Most seminaries assume that pastors will earn the MDiv and then move on to the DMin or PhD. Therefore their programs are set up like that. Swaimj has already mentioned Piedmont as having an MA to PhD program. You can also do the same thing at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. Some of their MA programs, though not all, will qualify a student to enter their PhD program(s). Wheaton College has a PhD program that allows MDiv and MA students to enter (as long as they meet the requirements). People who want to do a DMin or a PhD in theology/ministry should earn a MDiv (w/ languages). That is the best route to take to a doctorate degree in theology or ministry. There really are no "good" shortcuts.
     
    #3 Martin, May 9, 2008
  4. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    If I had to do it all over, it would be either SBTS or Wheaton.
     
    #4 TCGreek, May 9, 2008
  5. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Swaimj Response

    Hello Dear Bro. How Are You?

    I just looked at PBC's web page, and it seems that they are only TRACS accredited? Have I seen that right?

    If TRACS only, then we are thrown back onto the ongoing argument of doing education that is RA or ATS accredited; are we not?

    If a young man wants to get a PhD as quickly as possible then that is OK. But, if he wants a PhD that will open any doors where he would want to teach then he is going to have to have an RA or ATS accredited PhD degree. True? (This is a rhetorical question, hence the name:laugh: !).

    The PhD from PBC or Bob Jones would probably do for education purposes but for placement, it may not be worth as much.

    IMHO! FWIW!

    No harm or foul intended.

    "That is all!"
     
    #5 Rhetorician, May 9, 2008
  6. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    It depends on your purpose for getting a doctorate. The D. Pastoral Theology you mention is a degree for people who want a degree, rather than an education. It is not really a serious doctorate, IMO. It is really not even a Master's level curriculum in many ways. I would stay away from it.

    The DMin requires an MDiv and 5 years or so of pastoral experience.

    The best route is an MDiv with languages (never get an MDiv without languages). If after that, you still want to pursue a doctorate, there are a number of ways to go about it.

    But I think the key thing is to get an MDiv first, and then decide why you want a doctoral degree.

    Rhet is right about the degree from PBBC or BJU, though BJU's is probably a better degree in that regard. They will not open many doors because of the lack of RA, and will be accepted these days only in those types of circles. Getting a degree from SBTS or Wheaton (as was mentioned) is certainly a step up, but there is a glut of PhDs for teaching positions.

    If after an MDiv you still want to pursue a PhD and you have options to move, then find a topic you want to study, find a person you want to study under, and go there.

    Here is something to read: http://seanmichaellucas.blogspot.com/2008/05/ministerial-students-calling-and-phd.html

    I have something else when I can find it.
     
    #6 Pastor Larry, May 9, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2008
  7. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Pastor Larry Response

    Pastor Larry,

    As always it is good to hear from you again. It has been a while has it not?

    I whittled down your post just a bit. I did it so that I might highlight or toot my own horn. Thank you for your good words and for placing a level of trust in what I have said. I would like to make a couple of observations to any and all who would pursue any education in order to teach in any venue be it Bible college, Christian liberal arts university, in house Bible school or institute, seminary, or grad school of religion:

    1. Under no circumstances do a degree, especially ANY ADVANCED DEGREE, that is not RA or ATS if you want to teach and go on to do a real PhD.

    2. I would want to have an almost audible "word from God" to set out on the trek of getting a PhD to teach. There are just not, at this time, (m)any places to teach out there. Unless of course one has an inside "friend."

    I am saying these things b/c of my own trials and tribulations getting a position. I am also realize that God can and does open doors as I am an example. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not pursue this route unless or until you know for a fact that it is God's will. The costs will be extremely high, especially if you have a family that you must support. If you must go down this path, then make it as quick and as painless as possible on your dear wife and kids. But, the reward is great no doubt.

    "That is all!"
     
    #7 Rhetorician, May 9, 2008
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  8. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Once again you make some very good points. I know a guy who teaches high school social studies. In order to get a better salary he went back to school and earned a Master of Arts in Teaching degree with a concentration in history/social studies. Now he is back trying to get the necessary 18 hours in history to teach history at the community college level. I try to tell people like that not to quit their day job. I don't know about other states, but here in North Carolina full-time and adjunct positions at community colleges are very difficult to get. Probably around half of the advertised positions are already filled. The schools are required by law to advertise the position regardless of whether or not they already have someone moving into that position. I got my position teaching history at a small community college through my major professor at the University. He is somewhat friendly with the head of the history department at the community college I now work at. So, when he called the University and asked if they could recommend anyone my name was the first name out of his mouth. I did the interview, got along very well with the head of the history dept, and found out that I knew some other people who worked at the community college. That is how I got my job. So, you are correct, unless you have an "inside track" or some kind of "connections" it is very, very hard to get a teaching position at the college level (adjunct or full-time). That is true with history, theology, and other fields.
     
    #8 Martin, May 10, 2008
  9. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Shaun Reponse

    Shaun,

    Reasons for not getting a D. Pastoral Th. from BJU:

    1. BJU is only accredited by TRACS.

    2. The D. Pastoral Th. is only a practitioner degree.

    3. The D. Pastoral Th. is not an academic degree.

    4. Because BJU is not RA or ATS accredited you will not be able to find a place to teach if you want to do so later like a seminary or Bible College. The exception would be that you could teach in the "Fundamentalist's subculture schools."

    5. All (most of) your grad work or seminary work would not be recognized if you wanted to go to a major state, secular, or private university to do further grad work.

    6. Most of their teaching staff are "inbred," that is, they have their terminal or last degree from BJU rather than a recognized RA or ATS school.

    And I could probably find some more if given more time. Remember, you asked.

    If you are not wanting to teach in any other venue other than a "BJU venue," ie which is the staunchly and historically "Fundamentalists circles" then you should be OK. You will have to decide if that is who you want to be. But, overall it will greatly limit your sphere of influence. This is something that we who are older would want you to understand. If you can live with that from now on then it will be a good move for you. B/c, if you live and run in the "BJU Fundamentalist's circle" you will be highly prized indeed!

    Your choice!

    "That is all!"
     
    #9 Rhetorician, May 10, 2008
  10. Siberian

    Siberian New Member

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    Rhetorician,

    I guess I don't understand. You seem to be staunchly againts schools that are not at least ATS, yet you have www.columbiaseminary.edu on your posts. Has something changed? Did CES achieve accreditation?
     
    #10 Siberian, May 13, 2008
  11. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Siberian Response

    Hey my good Brother,

    I can understand your questionings.

    First, education should do what you need/want it to do for you, even theological or ministry education.

    Secondly, education should help you get in and succeed in the venue (vineyard of our Lord) where you have decided or believe he wants you to work.

    Thirdly, one needs to go to the best place possible to accomplish the above.

    Fourthly, I advocate that people who even, for a moment, believe they will want to teach in an ATS or RA venue get the credentials needed for that type of work.

    Fifth, BJU is in its own category on many levels. So although their educational programs are rigorous, they are not readily accepted throughout the industry.

    Sixth, I advocate rigorous education and not all think they can get education that rigorous. And not all think they want an "online degree." I am about theological education. That is why I want to help all that I can get the best and most rigorous they can to help them in the venue where they believe the Lord wants them to work.

    But, let me say that; RA and ATS educational degrees are the only option for anyone who knows (or may even think) they want to teach someday in an ATS or RA situation.

    I hope this clears this up somewhat for you.

    "That is all!"
     
    #11 Rhetorician, May 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2008
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