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MacArthur on the Purpose Driven Life

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Revmitchell, May 14, 2009.

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  1. historyb

    historyb New Member

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    No he's not, it needs to be put in context. It is by God's grace through faith alone not just faith alone. He was clarifying
     
    #81 historyb, May 22, 2009
  2. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Welcome to the real world.

    As 'defined' by the gospel of "Lordship Salvation" , that is.

    Unfortunately. :tear:

    Ed
     
    #82 EdSutton, May 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2009
  3. historyb

    historyb New Member

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    Lordship is nothing more than have Christ Lord over every aspect as opposed to modern Evangelicalism which has become a mix of seeker sensitive and easy believeism non sense.

    Many are not comfortable letting Christ truly be Lord
     
    #83 historyb, May 22, 2009
  4. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Unlike the previous statement I alluded to, this statement (in blue) is actually Biblical. It's from Eph. 2:8: And one has been able to read this in English for 6 1/4 centuries and counting, including the D-R.
    Seems clear enough to me.

    Ed
     
    #84 EdSutton, May 22, 2009
  5. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Nothing like a couple of 'free shot' pejoratives, I guess.

    Are you suggesting "hard-believism" as some alternative?

    Exactly what is that?

    FTR, let it be said that "Lordship" is an inaccurate presentation of what is being claimed is necessary for salvation, by those who proclaim "Lordship salvation" but rather is effectively a 'mixing' of faith and works for salvation.

    Think I'll quote some fellow named Saul Paul, who quotes someone else you may have heard of, as well, for a different POV.
    Me?? I'm going to go along with these two fellows, Paul and David.

    Ed
     
    #85 EdSutton, May 22, 2009
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    There is often a semantical game played in discussions like these. This debate is no different then the Reformed debates. Whether it is understood or decided in a man's heart prior to salvation or as a result of salvation is a thin line. Of course many do not have a problem believing that man must believe prior to salvation. So why is that any less works? At least our reformed brothers are consistent in that area. To many think they know what works is and it is always assumed but never explained.Is it true that any effort or action or thought on man's part constitute works? And if so Why does believe not fall in that category? Seems pretty inconsistent to me.

    If Christ is not Lord whether that understanding or decision occurs prior to or after ( what ever game you want to play with that) then you have a salvation problem.

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

    Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
     
    #86 Revmitchell, May 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2009
  7. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    Dog in the Fight?

    Brethren;

    "I don't have a dog in this fight," but cannot we appeal to a Master's Seminary grad, who is a Baptist, who has sat under MacArthur's preaching to come and give us "more light than heat" on this one?:thumbsup:

    "That is all!"
     
    #87 Rhetorician, May 22, 2009
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...yet the quotes I have supplied from LS'ers don't support that. True repentance is not turning from sin FOR salvation, it is turning to Christ FOR salvation. Any "upfront commitments" to stop sinning in exchange for salvation (Macarthur's own words) is nothing more than RCC works based soteriology.
     
    #88 webdog, May 22, 2009
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Then any "upfront commitments" to believe is works as well.
     
    #89 Revmitchell, May 22, 2009
  10. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    God uses different ways of reaching people. The majority hear the good news from a friend but not everybody does. I have never met two people who have the same testimony.Whatever one calls that is not necessary. What is necessary is that the person follows Christ alone.
     
    #90 gb93433, May 22, 2009
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    If only faith were considered a work, but Scripture plainly states it is not. Making an "upfront commitment" to stop sin is most definitely considered a work (not to mention an impossibility for a spiritually dead person), because it is following the Law, or rather it is not breaking God's Law, which is how sin is defined.
     
    #91 webdog, May 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2009
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You did not address what I said. Making and up front decision to believe is the same action as making an up front decision to make Christ Lord. They are both up front decisions. To say it is not a work simply because God said so is to accuse God of being inconsistent. Both are up front decisions that is their nature. So they are either both works or neither is. No way around that.
     
    #92 Revmitchell, May 22, 2009
  13. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The problem you have is an unregenerated person can make an upfront commitment to believe, but an unregenerated person cannot make an upfront commitment to do something his nature has no clue what is involed. Confusing sanctification with justification is the issue here. Either way, true biblical repentance is the former, not the latter. I see no incosistancies whatsoever, as a commitment to a non work (faith) and a commitment to works (Law) are not the same actions.
     
    #93 webdog, May 22, 2009
  14. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    Since its in conjunction with the Purpose Driven Whatever; I would say that an upfront commitment should take 40 days. Just saying.
     
    #94 Thinkingstuff, May 22, 2009
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You are assuming that believing and making Christ Lord are different.
     
    #95 Revmitchell, May 22, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2009
  16. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I think we must remember that there are three tenses of salvation. They are past, present and future. The idea that we are saved, we are working out our salvation, and those who endure will be saved. Which is MacArthur making reference to?
     
    #96 gb93433, May 22, 2009
  17. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    How would you interpret 1 Cor. 3:15, "If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."
     
    #97 gb93433, May 22, 2009
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Why don't you first tell me how in the world you find this verse is relevant to this thread?
     
    #98 Revmitchell, May 22, 2009
  19. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    We don't make Him anything, especially in a unregenerated state.
     
    #99 webdog, May 22, 2009
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Justification.
     
    #100 webdog, May 22, 2009
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