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Mark of the BEAST

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by wopik, Mar 24, 2006.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth -- John 4.

    Christ is "The Way the TRUTH and the life" and at the end of time those who follow after a lie are deceived because "they did not receive a love of the Truth" according to 2Thess 2.

    To "love Truth" is to accept whatever amount you have AND to desire more.

    It is that simple.

    Then the "Spirit of Truth" is there to "guide you into all truth" John 16.

    (No need to hand your brain over to a Priest so he can walk you away from truth and back to the infallible dark ages - telling you that you need not worry about knowing it for yourself.)

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    I see no one has answered this, but I guess I'll have to bite again, because I can't stand to see the clear passage of Rom.14 explained away like that.

    "Observe" is "ESTEEM" as it is on the KJV, or "regard" or "reckon".
    It is NOT a matter of people "observing ALL days, versus observing SOME, so we must find a set of days where people can observe all or some", so lets just plug in the Annual feasts". They key is "one day ABOVE another", and that is why "alike" is inserted there. The passage says nothing about annual days in particular, so you cannot just add that. Granted, it doesn's say the weekly sabbath either, so we must take the full set of days (annual or weekly) which can be observed 'above' other days, or not observed, and not all observed any of the days, because they had not been given to the Gentiles coming in (save the ealier Jewish proselytes).

    It's amazing how "Three times a year you shall celebrate a feast to Me" is taken as "Some may observe ALL the Lev 23 annual feast days – or some may have chosen to honor only the 3 mandatory ones listed in Exodus 23".

    All seven of the annual celebrations were or included SABBATHS (annual) in which they were under the same instructions as the weekly sabbath: no work, etc. as well as the sacrifices. It's just in unleavened bread, Firstfruits, and Tabernacles the males had to appear. People under the OC still had to OBSERVE Passover, Pentecost, Day of Atonement, and the Last Great Day! Nowhere does it say those ever became optional. Why do you keep ignoring this?
    How could you possibly keep claiming "#2. There is no OT command to "observe every day"
    What was God doing in Leviticus 23? They don't sound like 'nice suggestions' to me. They were ALL 'commandments'. (Perhaps wopik should come and argue with you over that, as he believes they are all still in effect too, and the SDA who doesn't keep them and keeps Easter and Christmas instead is just as much in danger of the Mark of the Beast. That is actually more consistent, as those two holidays have more of a direct pagan connection than weekly Sunday).

    Then, you keep insisting that "Neither of these is the case of 'observing NO day' - or "regarding NO day". (not withstanding the hopes of many today who might wish that such was the case)".
    but as an SDA, you actually keep NONE of them. What is your justification for this if the passage is telling Christians to keep all or at least 3 but not none? You then say "But after the end of all animal sacrifices (Heb 10) with the death of Christ. The shadows ceased to be mandatory". And that in its context is what Paul is telling us —About ALL days some might keep while others don't.


    Her's a more likely view of how the Mark will work (from http://members.aol.com/etb700/revelation.html):

    Too many people interpret this literally as a physical mark; perhaps even an electronic device placed under the skin. Many have pointed to cards like the new smart cards, and also the bar codes, which are said to have the number of the beast encoded between the product numbers. But the Bible elsewhere gives us a valid symbolic interpretation of the right hand and forehead. In Exodus 13:9, Deut.6:1,6-6 and 11:18, it conveys the meaning of work with the hand, and acceptance with the mind. (The Jews did make physical applications of it, though) What's interesting to note, is that the 144,000 earlier mentioned, are "sealed" (7:3,4), and the Seal is the Father's name (14:1), signifying that they belong to Him. And in this case, the seal is ONLY in the forehead, signifying the New Covenant principle of salvation by faith alone. A prototype of this seal of God is in Ezekiel 9:4-6

    17 So people will be forced to accept some sort of belief and practice, identifying them as belonging to the Beast, or they will not be able to buy or sell. This doesn't necessarily mean that stores won't accept one's money, as is the assumption in the popular "cashless society" theory, but that a person wouldn't be able to make a living— to even hold a job or function in society! Because enough hasn't been revealed yet, we cannot identify what exactly this mark will be. But as with the image of the beast, we can get some ideas of how it will work.

    Several times in the prophecy of Revelation, the faithful, such as those with the seal of God, are said to be those who keep the "commandments of God, and the faith/testimony of Jesus". And this is contrasted with the mark of the Beast. So the Sabbathkeepers have the right idea when they say that this mark of the beast will involve some point of SIN. But they have the wrong issue of what "sin" it will be. This main 'issue of the ages' cannot be the Sabbath-Sunday dispute over 'days' of worship. In the New Testament, the Sabbath and other Old Testament CEREMONIAL 'commandments' are NEVER the issue regarding sin and obedience to God. Yes, it may have been included in the original 10 Commandments, but as those other commandments actually changed in application (Matthew 5), so the spirit of the fourth commandment is resting in Jesus (Matt.11:28-30, Hebrews 4). Yet, it's trusting in Jesus plus the other commandments— not worshiping false gods or idols, blasphemy, killing, adultery, stealing, lying or even the covetousness (lust) that leads us to these things (some of the original Noahide laws) that are clearly emphasized. These are the only things that are mentioned in Revelation and other prophecies as bringing the wrath of God on humanity, not days of worship (except in the Old Covenant when He was dealing specifically with Israel). And since man cannot keep even these commandments perfectly, the ultimate issue for every person is the acceptance or rejection of God's provision for our sinful state— His own Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who died to pay the penalty our sins deserve, so we could be righteous before a holy God. So the issue of the ages basically, is whether people will follow Jesus, or reject Him so they can continue in the lusts of the flesh & eyes, the pride of life, etc. Even those who try to keep the laws of God without Jesus ultimately fall short, and are left in their sins. So in this sense, the fourth commandment— rest/trust in Jesus is the ultimate issue. Millions of people have died without ever having to have accepted or rejected a mark of the beast, and they will still be saved or condemned according to their relationship with Jesus during their lifetime. God could right now send the final wrath mentioned in upcoming chapters to the unregenerate, sinning world, and you wouldn't even need a mark of the beast. (But God is letting the evil powers of the world manifest their rebellion against Him by enforcing some law that will in some way cause people to compromise the commandments of God, and/or ones testimony of Jesus).

    One mild example I can use of this is what you may have to do to get a job in the first place. As times are getting tougher, and we compete with the global market, decent jobs one can live off of are getting more scarce and employers are getting increasingly scrutinous on people's work & experience record. Anything can be a spot on one's record, even periods out of work. It's like everyone has to practically lie or bend the truth to accentuate the positive and hide the negative. This was an issue in my early faith as my parents told me "what you have to do to survive" in society, and thought my new profession of faith would hamper that. Lying is sin. Yet, SURVIVAL is now at stake. This is REAL to people. They will do anything to survive, which is the basic instinct in all living things (which right there sets those who would follow the biblical command to give up one's life or freedom rather than support or worship evil against the rest of humanity).This is a fuzzy issue as it involves the question of how much "bending" of one's record constitutes lying, but it does give an example of how this may work.

    So Satan is manipulating his business and government systems to make life so desperate that people will easily and quickly follow his Beast system rather than God. The day is fast approaching, when living will be so tight that the only way to survive in society will be by acts that violate God's will and compromise one's faith, whether it be stealing, stepping on others to get ahead, setting aside beliefs and morals to be accepted in society, etc. Every sinful act of greed by both rich and poor, great and small is justified under the guise of "survival". Satan has the entire world gripped by this reasoning, including much of the church. So you see how easily these prophecies can be fulfilled. Also keep in mind once again, that the fulfillment of this will be after the world shaking events of the first four trumpets. Much of society will perhaps even be thrown back into barbarian type conditions where survival certainly will be at any cost.

    It's interesting to note how it is already almost impossible to get a job in this country without a social security number. But once again, that, as well as credit cards, bar codes, computers, etc. is not connected with sin. Perhaps they could be involved in the sense that the entire government system will be fighting against the returning Christ, and all of these things will be tokens of alliance with the evil powers. So these things can't completely be ruled out as fulfillments of the prophecy, but then the prophecy can't be limited to these things either. Anyone caught in their sins without Christ will be under the same wrath, even if he has nothing at all to do with the Beast system and its technologies.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The "point" of the list of the Fall and Spring Holy days of Lev 23 was to SHOW what the People oof God in the NT were looking at as they read God's Word and tried to decide what days to observe. Some observing one day above another while others abserved all the days.

    The failed attempt to twist the text into saying "One person observes one day ABOVE another while another observes NO DAYS AT ALL" - was dealt with in this link

    http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3749/3.html#000037

    Enjoy!!
     
  4. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    And it was also answered just above:
    1) All 7 holy days were to be "observed" in one way or another, just as much as the weekly sabbath. Three of them requiring a male appearence does not equal them being the only ones "mandatory", or the other ones "optional".
    2) If the NT is freed from the obligation of ALL of the annual holy days, then why would he be encouraging people to "observe" ALL, or only THREE "above the others", but (according to you) exclude "none".

    There was no "trying to decide which days to observe" in the OT, and in the NT, what this passage is saying is that they ALL are now optional, so no one judge over any of them. If some or one of them were still mandatory, then there would be a legitimate reason to "judge" over them! Instead, it is called a "doubtful disputation".
     
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    So the mark will be the word "Sunday" on a person's forehead or hand? :confused: [​IMG]
     
  6. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    webdog,


    No, it doesnt mean that that will have the word Sunday on their forehead of hand...


    see verses 2 and 8? the commandments were worn on the forehead and hand/forearms of God's people as a "sign" or as a "reminder" that in all they THINK and DO it was to be in refrence that to the fact taht they were followers of the Creator God and to represent Him rightly among the nations

    Deut 6:

    2: That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.


    3: Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
    4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
    5: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
    6: And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
    7: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.


    8: And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.


    9: And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.


    the Mark of the beast means they will give mental assent and loyalty to Satan and to his repsentative, the Pope in place of the Creator, for the Catholic Church changed God's Commandments ...placing themselves "in the seat of God as if they were God"

    2Thes:2:4: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

    their allegiance is given to the creature rather than to the Creator.

    it is not a literal physical mark
     
  7. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    I shouldve said forehead OR hand... but its to late to edit that....

    oh growl.
     
  8. mcneely

    mcneely New Member

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    Claudia,

    Not long ago, you were talking about how silly anti-catholicism was. Now, you're proclaiming that the Pope is the Antichrist. Ripping a page from Luther's book, eh? That's what early reformation fathers told their followers.

    That's one of the problems on the protestant side of the world. Everyone's got their own version of what everything means, and it's confusing everyone. People take a world figure, apply the "mark" and the "temple" figures to things associated with the person, and Bam! You got yourself a bonafied Antichrist theory!

    During the reformation, they chose the Pope. It's genius! When one dies, another one takes his place, and we just convince people that the really "evil" one hasn't come along yet! More recently people were picking on Presidents, and people in power with the American government. Bill Gates, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, George Bush Senior, the list goes on.

    Now we return to the original "conclusion". The Pope. I'd just stick with this one, guys. As long as Popes keep replacing each other, you'll never run out of potential Antichrists. You've hit the motherload!
     
  9. mcneely

    mcneely New Member

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  10. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    yeah, Bill Gates has the power to be the Anti-Christ...

    More power than even the Pope or President...

    In one piece of code he could "backdoor" into every windows system in the World and effectively take over...


    There are four pages here... So, I haven't read then all...


    Right now the chief contender for the Mark of the Beast is RFID tag chips...

    These can be implanted in skin anywhere on the body, be tracked, and contain all your personal information, banking financial etc.

    At least that's the theory.

    Right now the data storage capacity and intellegence of the implanted devices is too limited to do everything "the mark" would require...

    And, today at least, there is no move to make their use mandatory for buying and selling...

    But, as the technology becomes more mature (two years at the latest?) and the incidences of ID Theft increase there will be a call to **allow** "Biometrics" for banking transaction security and/or RFID chips...

    It will be optional for a while...

    But, when it works, and it *will* work...

    The banking system will start shifting over to it as a required option for all remote transactions or you will have to appear in person to access your funds...

    Check-21 and Auto-Pay has all but make check writing obsolete...

    I don't see how we can be that far away from it.

    Especially if we allow politicians with no religious conscience at all to be elected and they appoint judges who also have no Religious Conscience as well...

    Mike Sr.
     
  11. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    I NEVER EVER said anything about "How silly anti-catholicism" is. EVER.

    I said I thougt it was stupid to call them a cult.

    Beause the term "cult" can be whatever anyone wants it to be. So lets be accurate.

    If you can show me where you think I said anti-catholcism was "silly" then show it to me please.

    Furthermore, the characteristics of the Beast power ALL have to be there to determine who the beast... The 666 number plus all the other characteristics... such as blaspheming God, seeking to change times and laws... and so on.

    You can take ONE of those characteristics and try to apply them to various groups or people but that isnt how Bible prophecy works. .



    Claudia

    [ April 30, 2006, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
     
  12. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    The Mark of the Beast


    For more on this subject of the Roman Cathoic Church meeting all the requirement of the Beast power in the Book of Revelation click here:
    Who is the Beast of Revelation?

    Who is the First Beast?

    The characteristics of the Beast power ALL have to be there to determine who the beast... The 666 number plus all the other characteristics... such as blaspheming God, seeking to change times and laws... and so on.

    You can take ONE of those characteristics and try to apply them to various groups or people but that isnt how Bible prophecy works. . The Beast must meet ALL of the following criteria



    1. Rises up out of the Sea
    2. Receives its power, seat and authority from the Dragon
    3. Becomes a worldwide power
    4. Guilty of Blasphemy
    5. Rules for 42 prophetic months (1260 years)
    6. Receives a deadly wound that heals
    7. A religious power that receives worship
    8. Persecutes God’s Saints
    9. Has mysterious number 666
    10. Led by one supreme man
    11. Would change times and laws


    The Sabbath:

    Revelation 14:6-12
    6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
    7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
    8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
    9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
    12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


    Note that the Three Angels warn of the Judgment then they quote right from the 4th Commandment, the Sabbath Commandment in verse 7:
    “and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters”

    and that in verses 11 and 12 those who receive the dreaded Mark of the Beast are in contrast with God’s
    people, the Saints, who “Keep the Commandments OF GOD”, signifying that those who receive the Mark of the Beast DO NOT keep the Commandments OF GOD.


    Mt:15:9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments OF MEN.

    Mk:7:7: Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments OF MEN.


    The Forehead and the Hand:

    The Mark of the Beast will be on the forehead and the hand.

    Deuteronomy chapter 5 recites the 10 Commandments. Then in Deuteronomy Chapter 6 we read:

    6: And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart
    8: And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.


    Deuteronomy 18:
    18: Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.


    Exodus 13:
    9: And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.


    Isaiah 59: (Hand and Forehead)

    6: … their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
    7: .. their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity


    The Law Today:

    Hebrews 8:
    10: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people


    John 14:
    15: If ye love me, keep my commandments.


    Romans 6:
    16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    Ezekiel 22:
    8: Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.
    26: Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.


    Isaiah 58:
    1: Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
    13: If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
    14: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.



    Mt:5:18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


    “Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Sabbath to Sunday…

    not from any directions noted in the scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of it’s own power…

    People who think that the scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.”
    -Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Sentinel, May 21, 1995


    Lk:6:46: And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?


    Matthew 7:
    21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
    23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


    Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


    Mark of her authority
    Lawrence Nelsons, "Who is the AntiChrist?"

    "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws. " Daniel 7.25.

    Take a careful look at what God means when He says that this power would "think to change times and laws." There is only one law of God, and that is found in Exodus 20. There is only one portion of that law in which time is a factor. Let's read the fourth commandment as God wrote it.

    "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. " Exodus 20:8-1 1.

    Can we discover where the Papacy has actually attempted to change the divine law of God affecting a time element? Yes, we certainly can. If you will open any Roman Catholic Catechism and turn to that portion dealing with the law of God, you will discover that the law has indeed been greatly changed. They have left out the second commandment entirely and divided the tenth commandment into two parts, thus attempting to still retain ten commandments. But notice the fourth particularly. The time element has been deliberately removed, along with the express command stating which day is the Sabbath. All that remains are the words, "Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.'

    Let us read a most challenging statement made by the Church. They have done exactly what God predicted they would do.

    "The Pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret, even divine laws....The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth with most ample power of binding and loosing the sheep."-From the Prompta Bibliotheca published in 1900 in Rome by the press of the propaganda.

    "The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ."-Decretal de Translat, Episcop. Cap.

    The pope's will stands for reason. He can dispense above the law, and of wrong make right by correcting and changing laws."-Pope Nicholas, Dis. 96.

    It is within the inspired words "think to change times and laws" that we discover the "mark of the beast."

    The following are all authentic quotations that will definitely answer our questions as to what the "mark of the beast" is. Notice them carefully.

    "The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."-Catholic Mirror, Sept. 23, 1893.

    You will notice in this information that the Church declares that it was not God Who changed the day from Saturday to Sunday but that they, the papists, were the ones who made this change. The Sabbath was officially changed by the Papacy at the Council of Laodicea on March 7, 364 A.D. That was 43 years after Constantine declared Sunday the day for Christians to honor as a rest day.

    "Question.-Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?"

    "Answer.-Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her,-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."-Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

    This quotation emphasizes the fact that since the world accepts Sunday as a day of worship, this acknowledges her supremacy.

    "I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to any one who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No; by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' and lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. 'Priest Enright, C.S.S.R., Kansas City, Missouri.

    There is no question concerning the changing of Sabbath the seventh day to Sunday the first day by the Papacy. You can readily see that there is nothing to be found in the Bible about changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. The Papacy is correct in stating that they changed the day.

    "In reply to a letter of October 28, 1895, to Cardinal Gibbons, asking if the church claimed the change of the Sabbath as her mark, the following was received: 'Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act .... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.'-C.F. Thomas, Chancellor."

    Sunday is the mark of authority of the Roman Catholic Church. It is the "Mark of the Beast." Of this there is absolutely no question, either in the Word of God or in history.

    Are Protestant churches aware of these facts? Do they agree that there is no Scriptural authority for Sunday keeping? Let us now turn to the various Protestant churches and hear from them.

    Presbyterian: "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath.'Dwight's theology, vol. 4, p. 401.

    Congregational: "There is no command in the Bible requiring us to observe the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath." Fowler, Mode and Subjects of Baptism.

    Lutheran: "The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church."-"Augsburg Confession of Faith," quoted in Cox's Sabbath Manual, p. 287.

    Friends, don't you think that when a church admits they are following a teaching not founded on the Word of God, they ought to change and follow God's Word?

    Episcopalian: "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."-Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, p. 186, translated by Henry John Rose, B.D. (Philadelphia: James M. Campbell & Co., 1843).

    Here is another church that admits it was not the apostles' intention that the day of worship should ever be changed.

    Methodist: "it is true there is no positive command for infant baptism .... Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week."-Rev. Amos Binney, Theological Compend, pp. 180, 181, 1902 ed.

    Even our Methodist friends admit that there is nothing in the Bible directing us to keep Sunday holy. Let us turn to our friends the Baptists:

    Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual, before a group of ministers, made this candid admission:

    "There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges, and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament, absolutely not. There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.

    "Of course," he continues, "I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"-From a paper read before a New York Ministers' Conference, held Nov. 13, 1893.

    Here is one of the leaders of a great Protestant denomination clearly admitting that Sunday keeping is branded with the Mark of paganism.

    Who is the Beast of Revelation?


    Claudia

    [ April 30, 2006, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
     
  13. standingfirminChrist

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    Sunday worship has nothing to do with the Mark of the Beast.
     
  14. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Although, I have since reconsidered the idea of the Roman Catholic Church being a cult.

    My opinion is that a Cult is a group who discourages their members from being able to see/read/find out any other materials that might show where their own ideas are false.

    To me, the Jehovahs Witnesses might fit into that category since they discourage their members from even going on the internet and reading other people's materials. Like the Moonies how they try and cut people off from family members, and so on.

    And now that I have had time to think about this even more today I am sure the Roman Catholic Church would fit into that category as well, since during the Dark Ages they wouldnt allow people to even have a Bible.

    But Im not going to go around as many people do and throw the word "Cult" around every chance I get... I think that is stupid.

    Its like some think that if they say that enough about a group then everyone will just accept that... I would rather give Bible evidence showing where a group's teaching is wrong than to go around throwing the "Cult" word around like its going out of style. I think thats just a "easy out". And not much substance to it, on top of all that. If you dont like a group or a church its very easy to just keep on claiming it is a cult... because people know once you throw that word out then lots of people who wont investigate for themselves will automatically just believe that group or religion is a cult.

    I think it is low tactics myself to go around using that word every 5 minutes or so against a group or religion... including the Roman Catholic Church.

    Claudia
     
  15. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    Just for the record, I think its also lousy practice to act as if ALL PEOPLE in any relgion are not God's people. I think that is a false idea.


    The Book of Revelation says to "Come out of Babylon MY PEOPLE":

    Rv:18:4: And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.


    It is actually the Seventh Day Adventist position that most of the people who are going to make up God's Remnant Church are in OTHER Denominations besides our own.

    God is giving the Three Angel's Messages of Revelation 14 to the whole world and MANY MANY will come out of the fallen churches to accept this message... and MANY MANY SDAs will leave our church when the persecution begins.. falsehearted believers.

    In fact, in the Spirit of Prophecy writings for our church it says many Roman Catholics are more sincere and devoted to God than some in our own church... they are living up to the light that they have...

    So THESE THINGS are where I was making my comments about anti-catholicsm being "silly" if you want to put it that way.

    The RELIGIOUS SYSTEM is wrong, desperately wrong. As are the doctrines.


    Claudia
     
  16. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    And for those who would argue that the 10 Commandment Law of God and the Sabbath is not applicable today ... I would say that they should study these Bible passages:


    Here we can clearly see that loving our neighbor (the Law) isnt an OPTION as far as gaining etrnal life goes...

    1Jn:3:
    14: We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
    15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


    Rom:13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


    James 2:
    8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
    9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
    10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
    11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
    12: So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


    Matthew 5:
    17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    20: For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


    Claudia
     
  17. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    We are now totally Off-Thread-Topic?
     
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