masonic lodge

Jacob,

I have a hard copy of the document from the SBC, the entire document is real long. I do not know if the document is online, I would be surprized if it is not. Maybe someone else could give this information.

Bro Tony

 

Jacob,

You can obtain a full copy of the 75 page report here www.namb.net/evangelism/iev/mason. I believe they will just charge you for the copying and postage.

Bro Tony

 

found at http://www.namb.net/evangelism/iev/mason.asp

They did a great job of hammering on both sides of the information good and bad. I do not agree with the conclusion from this comity but for the SBC I do not find this to be unusual given the slide to liberal views and unscriptural stands. The summary report was very informative and useful in study and understanding.

 

For some reason the SBC, even those who would be considered a part of the conservative group will not deal definative with the matter of freemasonry. There are many in my state who are a part of masonry and will not answer legitimate questions about the organization. I am genuinely concerned that this is a place of hidden sin in the convention and its stand will further weaken the effectiveness of the convention.

Before anyone asks how that is possible. The answer is clear that disobedience to Christ will bring chastisement on His people.

Bro Tony

 

I couldn't agree more about rumors and second-hand information. That is why, when I wanted to know about freemasonry, I went straight to the horses mouth. I read their books about themselves. Some were loaned to me from former members, some were at the local library, and some were ordered from larger libraries. I am not quite so much interested in second-hand information unless they give me a reference, I can then use, to go to the original source. I have many, many, many, many quotes from several Masonic books by Masonic authors who, by their own words condemn themselves unknowingly because they seldom have a good grasp of scripture.

For example:

From "The Kentucky Monitor" by Henry Pirtle, 1979

Page 9, "We admit none, knowingly, into our ranks who is not moral and upright in the sight of God...we obligate them by very solemn and irrevocable ties, to perform the requirements of and to avoid the things prohibited by Freemasonry. (obligations) when once taken, they can NEVER be repudiated nor laid aside. Yet I am free to inform you that these obligations contain nothing which can conflict with the duties you owe to God, your country, your neighbor, or yourself, neither will they conflict with any religious or political opinions you may have, be they what they may."

How many drunks, adulterers, liars, nonChristians, etc. do you reckon are admitted into Freemasonsy without blinking? Are all of these folks "upright in the sight of God"? "contain nothing which can conflict with...be they what they may. I cannot even conceive of the remotest possibility of that statement being seriously considered true by anyone. Freemasonry is so overwhelmingly pervasively filled which such outlandish statements as to boggle the mind.

 

(How many drunks, adulterers, liars, nonChristians, etc. do you reckon are admitted into Freemasonsy without blinking? Are all of these folks "upright in the sight of God"? "contain nothing which can conflict with...be they what they may. I cannot even conceive of the remotest possibility of that statement being seriously considered true by anyone. Freemasonry is so overwhelmingly pervasively filled which such outlandish statements as to boggle the mind.)

That is why they said we admit none knowingly into our ranks. Sure there are those who get drunk, adulterers, liars and non-Christians. Drunks are kicked out if found out, as are adulterers and Liars to bring a false claim against someone is wrong in Freemasonry all of the above is wrong in Freemasonry other than being non-Christian they have the penalty of being kicked out of Freemasonry for committing them. Freemaosnry (Blue Lodge) is not a Christian Frat. It is setup for everyone to help each other no matter religion reminds you of the Who is my Neighbor, You neighbor is not just those who believe the same as you your neighbor is everyone in the world wether the Worship Christ or not we are to be kind and help them. The Knights Templar is a Christian Only Frat of Freemasonry you must profess a Faith in Jesus Christ before being allowed to join.

As far as allowing Drunks and such to be apart of it. How many Pastors, Deacons and Teaches have be drunks, adulterers and liars. Until these people are found out for who they are we do not pass judgement until they confess or proof is presented. The defrence is that a Pastor, Deacon and teacher will be asked to resign a Mason will be put on trail or just kicked out.

 

My point was that they DO KNOW and still admit them. My uncle was a big time drunk for many many years, I don't mean he occasionally drank, I mean he was a falling down drunk most of his life. When he died, he was a member in good standing and received a top notch masonic funeral and they accounted him in the celestial lodge because he was a good mason. They KNOW.

Which makes it a false statement when they say they admit none knowingly who is not upright in the sight of God. They knowingly admit a nonChristian who is not upright in the sight of God.

It seems then that the irrevocable ties can be revoked.

No, it isn't. So, why, are they telling people how to get to the celestial lodge and leaving out a little detail like Christ.

My point is that this is merely one of a myriad of statements which are false on the face of it. It is not possible that these obligations will never conflict with my religious or political opinions BE THEY WHAT THEY MAY.

 

As with even some churches people are not kicked out or allowed to be brought in as a deacon because they are a friend it has happen all thou we do not like it. Some allow this to go on I for one will not deny it and it is wrong. Why did you not inform anyone there of it, it could have made a differance. No one who acts in this manner should remain a Mason as it does not go with the rules. And was your Uncle a memember of a acknoledge Blue Lodge.

This means a good person not a perfect one.

Well I am not sure which Lodge you have or have not belonged to But even thou it is not a Christian Frat Christ is still presented. And if you read a book called Fundimentlism and Freemasonry by Gary Leazer you will see were Christ is presented as He is in Rev 5:5. And also God in the Threefold Aspect of the Trinity.

 

I am not really concerned with debating the imperfections of the church, that's a given. I'm not even interested in debating the imperfections of the lodge, that is also a given. I am saying that they state that they do not knowingly admit someone who is not upright in the sight of God and I said that they do, and they know they do and they know it when they do it, and therefore, it is a lie.

Several reasons. 1. I was not a member and it was therefore none of my business. 2. It was at his funeral when I got to observe, for the first time, first hand a Masonic Rite without merely being told about it by other people. 3. It was 20 years ago and I was pretty ignorant about what masonry actually taught.

That's my point. The rules say one thing but their actions say another and they know it. This isn't an isolated or rare case. Adulterers and fornicatiors are commonly winked at because they are good ole boys who get along well with others. My uncles' son died a few years later and, like his father, he was a drunk but was still buried in good standing.

He was a member in good standing of his local lodge. I have no idea as to what degree he attained.

This means a good person not a perfect one.</font>[/QUOTE]Can you see the subtlety of that change? Another son of my uncle is not a Christian but has been told by the lodge that he is upright in the sight of God. If "upright in the sight of God" doesn't mean "upright in the sight of God" then what they are saying is a lie.

I have never been a member of the lodge. Several members of my family and several friends are or have been. We all still get along even though we had a nice long talk about masonry and they know what my opinion is.

The very first thing I noticed when reading their books was their amazing use of language. It was very impressive how they could write one thing but through the clever use of synonyms make it appear to be saying something else. They used words with different connotations and frequently meant the lesser know of those connotations. That was a sincere compliment and not a put down.

Page 18 of the aforementioned book.

"as Masons we are taught that no man should ever enter upon any great or important undertaking without first invoking the blessing of deity. Thie is because Masonry is a religious institution" (emphasis mine)...

Yet, they will frequently claim that masonry is NOT religious and should not be evaluated according to religion.

[ July 06, 2004, 02:43 AM: Message edited by: Artimaeus ]

 

We use Upright in the Sight of God to say this man seems to be a good man. There is no way for any of us to truely know How we are before God. This is Middle age laungauge used. Such as Worshipful Master it does not mean a man to be worshiped as a god it means respectable man. Just as Upright before God means good man. I have have seen what you are talking about the Good Ole boy problem is everywhere here were I work, at some churches I have attended and in the Lodge. It is wrong to let this go on if you see any of this speak up do not just sit there. Evil happens when good men do nothing. A persons soul is much more important than hurting there feelings.

 

This is the subtlety to which I am referring. The almost constant use of the formula, "We use 'A' to mean 'B'. It acknowledges that not only is the first statement misleading but, that it is misleading on purpose.

Evil continues when that which the good man does do is ignored.

That is why I risk incurring the wrath of Masons and their supporters by pointing out the erros involved. Both of my grandfathers were "good" men and both were masons. Both believed they were going to heaven because they believed Freemasonry when it told them how to get to the celetial lodge.

"MORAlS AND DOGMA OF THE ANCIENT AND ACCEPTED SCOTTISH RITE OF FREEMASONRY" by Albert Poke
Page 11. "The Bible is an indispensable part of the furniture of a Christian Lodge, only because it is the sacred book of the Christian Religion. The Hebrew Pentateuch in a Hebrew Lodge, and the Koran in a Mohammedan one, belong on the altar;
The obligation of the candidate is always to be taken on the sacred book or books of his religion, that he may deem it more solemn and binding; abd therefore it was asked of what religion you were. We have no more concern with your religious creed."

The Bible or the Koran makes no difference to Freemasonry because it is only a symbol. Can the Bible be replaced with the Koran? Just ask a Shriner.

 

(That is why I risk incurring the wrath of Masons and their supporters by pointing out the erros involved. Both of my grandfathers were "good" men and both were masons. Both believed they were going to heaven because they believed Freemasonry when it told them how to get to the celetial lodge.)

If your Grandfathers thought that Freemasonry would get them to Heaven than they total ignored its teachings. And I feel for them about that Because Christ is the only way to Heaven not Freemasonry. Freemasonry states plainly Salvation is not to be found in Freemasonry Salvation is not of the Fraternal. But alot of people over look this statement cause it disagrees with what they have thought about Freemasonry.

(The Bible or the Koran makes no difference to Freemasonry because it is only a symbol. Can the Bible be replaced with the Koran? Just ask a Shriner.)
As I said before The Blue Lodge which is not the Shrine and is not a Christian Frat but has the teachings and mentions Christ in it. The Knights Templar the contuination of the Blue Lodge cansider by many. Proclaims Salvation only Thru the Blood of Jesus Christ and you must Profess a Faith in Jesus Christ to Join. And the York Rite is the Oldest of Freemasonry older even than the Blue Lodge. And is believed to be were the the Blue Lodge comes from a Christian Frat the Knights Templar. Which would make since as to all of the teachings of Brother Love, Loving Your Neighbor and Charity these are teaches presented in the Blue Lodge that all can agree on. The Knights Templar is a Christian Frat so only Christians can join because not everyone believe that Christ is out Savior and God.


(The Bible or the Koran makes no difference to Freemasonry because it is only a symbol. Can the Bible be replaced with the Koran? Just ask a Shriner.)

For me no a Bible can not be replaced with the Koran but the Shriners are not a Christian Frat neither.

 

I am too closely tied to this subject to make any statements on freemasonry; however, this is good advice for any discussion.

 

Interesting, I have never read this in any of their writings. Where would this be found?

ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FREEMASONRY, Albert, Mackey; Mose and Company, Philadelphia, PA (1879)
"The religion of Freemasonry is not sectarian. It admits man of every creed within its hospitable bosom, rejecting none and approving none for his peculiar faith. It is not Judaism, though there is nothing in it to offend a Jew: it is not Christian, but there is nothing in it repugnant to the faith of a Christian. Its religion is that general one of nature and general revelation - handed down to us from some ancient and patriarchal priesthood - in which all men may agree and none may differ."
"Hutchinson and Oliver, I am constrained to believe, have fallen into great error in calling the Master Mason's degree a Christian Institution. If Masonry were simply a Christian Institution, the Brahman, the Muslem and the Buddhist could not conscientiously partake of its illumination, but it's universality is its boast; in its language citizens of every nation can converse; and its alters all religions may kneel, and to its creed every faith may subscribe."
"The Bible is properly called a greater light of masonry, for from the center of the lodge it pours forth upon the East, the West, and the South its refulgent rays of Divine truth. The Bible is used among Masons as a symbol of the will of God, however it may be expressed, and therefore, whatever to any people expresses that will, may be used as a substitute for the Bible in the Masonic Lodge. Thus, in a lodge consisting entirely of Jews the Old Testament alone may be placed upon the alter, and Turkish Masons make use of the Koran. Whether it be the Gospels to the Christian, the Pentateuch to the Israelite, the Koran to the Mussulman, the Vedas to th Brahman, it everywhere Masonically conveys the same idea--that of the symbolism of the divine will revealed to man."

But for Masony it obviously can be. Your respect for the Bible is not in question but, Masonry's is.

 

This is a Statement from and posted on the Grand Lodge of TN Website

(39. Do Masons believe that by doing good works they can gain admittance to heaven?


No. The admittance into heaven falls in the realm of the spiritual, not the fraternal.)

As far as what is posted from Pike it pretains to the Blue Lodge not the Knight's Templar.

(But for Masony it obviously can be. Your respect for the Bible is not in question but, Masonry's is.)
Blue Lodge is not a Christian Frat. It does hold the Bible in High respect that is why it uses it teaches of Loving Your neighbor and Brotherly Love and Charity. Remember these goes back to the Middleages when and Man's word was one of the most important things he had in the begiining Freemaosnry was a Christian only Frat latter they decsided to share these teaches of Friendship, Loving your neighbor and charity to everyone who believe themsevles to be accountable to a Higher Being that is the whole reason for asking if you believe in a Supreme Being is because of accountablity. We as Christians may see it hard to trust someone who does not believe in Christ. But if someone like a Muslim comes in even thou they may not believe in Christ if they believing themselves acountable for going against the teaches of Brotherly Love, Loving Your Neighbor and Charity which are teachings from the Bible. In most Islamic states Freemasonry is illegal. But the reason for the question about the Supreme Being is for accountablity.

 

This, of course, is a typical Masonic response for public consumption. It is very difficult to get Masons to nail down the exact meaning of words. "Good works" is not the question, they don't teach that concept. What they teach is this: Follwing the tents of Masonry, whether or not it includes Christ, will enable one to be qualified for the "celestial Lodge" after death. They teach this in the lodges that have the Koran on the alter and in ever lodge that has any book on the alter.

What Pike, Mackey, and others wrote had to do with Freemasonry period. If there is a small niche within Freemasonry that allows some sort of veiled allegory, symbolized by the name of Christ, is of little comfort in defending the overall teachings of Freemasonry.

Let me requote part of Mackey again:
"The Bible is used among Masons as a symbol of the will of God, however it may be expressed, and therefore, whatever to any people expresses that will, may be used as a substitute for the Bible in the Masonic Lodge"
This says the Bible is a symbol and can be substituted for by any book that is deemd as equally symbolic. You have not responded to this clear statement from the writings of Freemasonry.

 

Yet interstingly the same thing often happens in reverse on the anti Freemason sites and in different churches. My brother in law who is right into the Freemasons went to my old church one day and one man there said he thougt that he knew him from somewhere and my brother in law said maybe he had seen him at lodge. To which the chap recoiled like he had been punched in the face and stood there and told him that he worships satan and a whole host of genrally rude and abusive allegations. That was six months ago and the only time I have got him to ever come to church. Needless to say that he tells me that he will not ever be back at that church.

I might point out that he has never accepted Jesus Christ as His Lord and Saviour, and all this chap has done is put a stumbling block in front of him. He believes in reincarnation and eastern stuff, yet I thought that I was getting somewhere with him. Maybe that is why the Bible instructs us to not Judge others. God is far more concerned with people choosing Him rather than people feeling self righteous about running non christians out of churches.

 

(Because of an unshaken faith in the merits of the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, we shall gain admission into the celestail Lodge above where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides)

This is from page 174 in Leazer's book concering the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. Which He says reffers to Christ and is in Freemasonry.

He goes on the translate it to say Unshaken Faith in Jesus Christ is how we gain admission inot Heaven.

 

Is this the same Gary Leazer who says: LINK HERE

"A Baptist is still a Baptist when he sits in Lodge. A Roman Catholic is still a Roman Catholic when he sits in Lodge. A Jew is still a Jew when he sits in Lodge. However, out of respect for another’s faith, we do not bring up religion during the Lodge meeting."

Is the Jew in the Lodge taught that Jesus Christ is the means of attaining Heaven? The celestial lodge is attainable to the Jew and without the necessary inconvienence of the devisive sectarianism of Jesus Christ. Do you respect the faith of the lost? I respect their right to their faith but not the faith itself. To say that religion is not brought up in the lodge is simply misleading. Religion is the bulk of Freemasonry. It is just that it is pretending to be non-sectarian and general.

From the same link Leazer quotes Rev J. G. Hughes:

"I do not know that the ideal church can learn anything from, or teach anything to, the ideal Masonic lodge."

The ideal Masonic lodge has nothing to learn from the ideal chruch??? How much more arrogant and self important can man get than to claim they have made an institution equivalent in quality to the one God made.

Again from the Kentucky Monitor:

Page 26 (Speaking to the initiate)

"There you stood without our portals, on the threshold of this Masonic life, in darkness, helplessness, and ignorance. Having been wandering among the errors and covered over with the polutions of the outer and profane world, you came inquiringly to our doors, seeking the new birth, and asking a withdrawal of the veil which concealed the divine truth from your uninitiated sight. And here, as with Moses at the burning bush, the solemn admonition is given. "Put off they shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground."

If you can read that last paragraph and fail to see the massive conflicts with true Christianity then it is unreasonable to assume that my mere words will have any effect.