Featured Matt 18 and Matt 6 Disprove OSAS

Have you ever quoted Ex 32:33, Deut 29:20, Rev 3:5 ?

But I don't think the names in the Book of Life can be
blotted out due to the works, but due to the apostasy of faith.
In reality can there be many who may fall under such category?
The apostasy can be a problem.
(From smartphone)

 

Bob, If forgiveness revoked is true, and someone loses their salvation because they refused to forgive someone who has wronged them, How do they get saved again? is forgiveness a work that must be done in order to get salvation.

You obviously won't answer this question that has been posed many times because the answer to the question is in conflict with Ephesians 2:8-9 and Titus 3:5, John 3:16, Romans 4:5,Romans 5:1,Romans 11:6, and a whole bunch of other passages of scripture that clearly teach salvation is only by grace through faith.

These verses alone are enough to show that your interpretations of the passages in the OP are incorrect.

we are commanded in 1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

You always form doctrine based on multiple passages of scripture not just one or 2 isolated passages.

 

Bob, don't you see how you went from lousing up the "Christian Walk" to a scripture speaking only about "Belief"?

You just grab a verse here and a verse there and put together this plan of redemption according to Bob's pick and choose plan. Anyone can do that!

So your saying that I can sin and war against Jesus Christ in whom I believe in (louse up my Christian walk) and have my forgiveness revoked, but as long as I believe I will be saved again? Well, when did I stop believing in the first place?? Does that really make sense to you??

Personally, I am guilty of sinning many times against God all the while I still believed Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. So I don't see how Romans 11 covers any salvation lost because of my Christian walk of rebellion. The only thing Romans 11 speaks of is "belief".

 

Wow, 'lost people...as they are LED by the Holy Spirit'???
Can anyone say..."that's Bob quoting Bob"?

 

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;


requirement [rɪˈkwaɪəmənt]
n
1. something demanded or imposed as an obligation Latin is no longer a requirement for entry to university
2. a thing desired or needed
3. the act or an instance of requiring

You have made works a requirement for salvation, just because you place works as an after requirement rather than a prerequisite does not mean that you are not teaching works salvation which is what Eph 8-9 says.

Ironically you are doing exactly what this verse teaches
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

This verse is talking about those who would seek their justification from the law(works based), Ryan you have fallen from Grace, you are no longer seeking justification by grace through faith because you have added unto Faith.

Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The moment you add any sort of requirement or work to grace, grace ceases to be grace, for you to teach that salvation requires any effort on our part other than believing and trusting Christ (faith) is to add works to grace, therefore you have fallen from grace as is said in Gal 5:4, Gal 5:4 has nothing to do with losing your salvation.

 

2 Timothy 1

12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.


According to Bob, Jesus really isn't able to keep us.

 

:thumbs::thumbsup::thumbs::smilewinkgrin:

 

John 6:39, 40
39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

These verses and the one you posted by Paul are very clear showing the Security {Preservation}of the Believer yet Ryan rejects them. These Scripture are a great comfort to the true believer.

 

Yes it does matter.
Can you show in the Bible how it is possible for a man to be born again and again and again, etc. There is no such teaching in the Bible.

Can you show in the Bible how once a person is made a child of God, that is born into God's family, that God disowns him, disinherits him, and he no longer is God's child but in actual fact is kicked out of God's family? Where is that teaching in the Bible.

The Bible teaches that the believer is sealed unto the day of redemption.
Can you tell me where the Bible teaches that "that seal" is ever broken? Where and who breaks the seal of redemption whereby the Holy Spirit of God seals those who come to Christ? Please explain using Scripture.

There is much more. But this is a good starting point.
If forgiveness revoked is true, then it must fit with the rest of Scripture. Here are some of the Scriptures that it must harmonize with.

 

One thing would be: exactly who has he committed to Him?

Another thing is: What Paul says he is persuaded of is not gospel.
He is not absolutely convinced ... his opinion is not guaranteed truth.

And another thing: If Paul is totally certain, why does he give all the many dozens of warnings?
.

 

There you have it! Paul IS totally certain, and this is why there are no warnings given to believers about losing salvation. Thus, one must seek the Spirit to understand Paul's admonitions to believers. This takes humility and a willingness to abandon man made traditions of a believer becoming lost again. Good luck!

 

Sorry, but I had to butt in ...

You have already been shown (and ignored) verses which specifically say Christians can ...
lose "eternal life"
go to hell
go to perdition
experience the wrath of God
be destroyed
fall from the faith
be estranged from Christ
fall from grace
etc.

Paul was writing ONLY to the saints at Ephesus who were faithful in Christ Jesus
when he said they had been sealed, marked, etc. as belonging to God.
Also ... IMO, God can choose to unseal (unmark) them, can't He?

Just because you insist on it, God does not have to spell everything out in minute detail.
Paul said that some things are spiritually discerned.
This is why we have been given the Holy Spirit ... to reveal spiritual truth to us.
.

 

So you say. I have never been shown one such verse in my life. A Christian cannot lose his salvation, but many are confused on this issue and believe they can.

To say that one can lose is eternal:
1. is to call Christ a liar. He said "I give unto you eternal eternal life."
You really believe he wasn't telling the truth! You ought to be ashamed.

2. To say that eternal doesn't mean eternal makes you a liar.
Eternal means just what the dictionary says it means--eternal, everlasting, without end. If you think it means something different, you lie. You lie and imply Christ is lying when you deny that Christians have eternal life which cannot be lost.

There is no scripture that teaches this.

There is no Scripture that teaches this.

Christians experience God's displeasure when they sin, even as a child experiences his earthly father's displeasure when he goes against his will. Thus the child of God is disciplined (as the child of the earthly father is also disciplined). If you do not receive God's chastisement then the chances are that you are not a child of God. Read Hebrews 6.

No Scripture teaches this.

Some Christians are not as strong in their faith as others.
Even John the Baptist began to doubt as he languished in jail.
But he didn't lose all hope, or turn apostate as you imply.
The Bible does not teach this.

Study your Bible. If you are this confused, you don't have a good understanding of salvation.

God does not lie; He does not do those things that are contrary to his nature. It seems that your God is a genie that you put into your pocket and take out any time you want something from him. That is not who God is.
He is the author of the Bible and his promises are true and faithful. If you choose not to believe in His Word that is your prerogative, but don't call yourself a Christian, a follower of Christ, if you can't believe in the words of Christ.

The Spirit of discernment comes through the Holy Spirit who works through His Word, which you cast doubt on.
Therefore IMO, it is you who probably does not have the Spirit of discernment and cannot easily discern spiritual truth.

 

You must have misunderstood my post so I will post it again. Maybe snap out of the program of paste a clip the same old same old and actually do some thinking and debating!

Bob, don't you see how you went from lousing up the "Christian Walk" to a scripture speaking only about "Belief"?

You just grab a verse here and a verse there and put together this plan of redemption according to Bob's pick and choose plan. Anyone can do that!

So your saying that I can sin and war against Jesus Christ in whom I believe in (louse up my Christian walk) and have my forgiveness revoked, but as long as I believe I will be saved again? Well, when did I stop believing in the first place?? Does that really make sense to you??

Personally, I am guilty of sinning many times against God all the while I still believed Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. So I don't see how Romans 11 covers any salvation lost because of my Christian walk of rebellion. The only thing Romans 11 speaks of is "belief".

 

I find it odd, that in the light of the above, you are still unable to answer the following:

Can you show in the Bible how it is possible for a man to be born again and again and again, etc. There is no such teaching in the Bible.

Can you show in the Bible how once a person is made a child of God, that is born into God's family, that God disowns him, disinherits him, and he no longer is God's child but in actual fact is kicked out of God's family? Where is that teaching in the Bible.

The Bible teaches that the believer is sealed unto the day of redemption.
Can you tell me where the Bible teaches that "that seal" is ever broken? Where and who breaks the seal of redemption whereby the Holy Spirit of God seals those who come to Christ? Please explain using Scripture.

There is much more. But this is a good starting point.
If forgiveness revoked is true, then it must fit with the rest of Scripture. Here are some of the Scriptures that it must harmonize with.

 

You are the liar ... because many such verses HAVE been shown to you.

Eternal life means eternal, and remains in place ... until one rejects it, or until God revokes it.

True saving belief means to have faith, to trust, and to obey.
No obedience means to no longer have true saving faith, i.e. loss of salvation.
This has happened to many BACs throughout history.
However, this never happens to those of Romans 8:28-30, who were elected before the foundation of the world.

Note: the above is not for you (again), but for others (perhaps for the first time).

Would you care to complete your position and declare to us and to God (again) that cessationism is true?

My position (again) is that these are the 2 major doctrines from the very pits of hell.

I am posting this in the Other Christian Denominations sub-forum,
and I assume that since I didn't start this thread, it will not be locked like my last one was.
.